#james's weird stan rambles again

[james-vi-stan-blog]

Hi I was wondering if you could share what you and historians make of Anne’s take on James’ homosexuality and his relationship (romantic, platonic or otherwise) with his queen, at the start of their marriage (i.e the sailing to Denmark and obsession etc) and the end (i.e letting her corpse rot) Thank you!! - thelastplantagenet 💚

Please excuse incoherent and loopiness I'm so sleepy while writing this alkdgf;ldgdk

The impression that I get of James is that he was very proud of his self-image as "a good king", "a good Christian", and "a good husband", based on his ever-so-clever reading of Scripture and philosophy. Picture the most horrible Arrogant Smart Kid Syndrome, formed by being the smartest person in the (very small) room for many years, which was never properly challenged by reality, because he's the king. The True Law of Free Monarchies and Basilokon Doron just drip with this attitude. Therefore, his self-image as magnanimous, benevolent, and faithful to his queen was important to him, even if in reality he was not these things.

cn for miscarriages, cruelty to pets, creepy kinda incestuous vibes, child marriage, etc.

There are two rather different images of the courtship of James and Anna (who was very young, just 14-15 to James's 22-23). On the one hand, James is said to have instantly fallen in love with her portrait almost as soon as marriage negotiations opened, to have written to her ardently, written poetry for her, and then of course have boldly sailed to "rescue" her in 1589. There is a story that when they first met in the flesh, James rushed over and kissed her "in the Scottish style", which repelled her (she thought it was very forward), but they later came to an understanding about this when the cultural difference was explained.

Yet also, James himself wrote of his reasons for sailing to his bride in October 1589:

As to the causes, I doubt not it is manifestly known to all how far I was generally found fault with by all men for the delaying so long of my marriage. The reasons were that I was alone, without father or mother, brother or sister, king of [Scotland] and heir apparent of England. This my nakedness made me to be weak and my enemies stark. One man was as no man, and the want of hope of succession bred disdain. Yea, my long delay bred in the breasts of many a great [suspicion] of my inability, as if I were a barren stock. These reasons and innumerable others, hourly objected, moved me to hasten the treaty of my marriage; for, as to my own nature, God is my witness I could have abstained longer nor the weal of my patrie could have permitted.

Basically, "I could have remained unmarried forever, but I have to get heirs for political stability". He was also noted for being coldly hard-assed in the dowry negotations.

Apparently their very early marriage was warm, but Anna was criticized for not immediately producing a child. When she was pregnant with Henry Frederick, IIRC rumors flew that he was not James's but that of Ludovic Stewart, 2nd Duke of Lennox (Esmé Stewart's son, therefore James's second cousin, who was also rumored to be a favorite of James's. Yes. This family is tangled and fucked up.) James was said to be jealous over this -- but was he jealous, or was he sensitive about the renewed rumors that Anna did not conceive by him because he was busy with his male favorites? (In reality, Anna had conceived immediately after their marriage, but then suffered a miscarriage.)

The marital relationship was then absolutely torpedoed by James's insistence on Henry Frederick being fostered at Stirling Castle by the Earl of Mar (the same Earl of Mar with whom he had huge childhood drama). This was traditional for Scottish heirs, and it was also sensible, as James and Anna were put in regular physical danger by rebellious lords, who you must remember repeatedly kidnapped young James and absolutely would pull all sorts of power shenanigans if they could lay hands on the heir. However, Anna was understandably furious and devastated by her separation from Henry. This became a huge battleground of their marriage, and James did not give way until the 1603 accession to the English throne, and it really ruined any affection Anna had for James. After that, Anna was often embroiled in schemes with factions that have grievances with James, like Bothwell and the Ruthvens. When the Ruthvens supposedly tried to assassinate James, Anna accused James of fabricating the whole thing. And as their children (Henry Frederick, Elizabeth, and Charles) grew up, Anna was often subtly working on them and turning them against their father (which wasn't hard because James was an awful, totally uninvolved father).

It is said that Anna once """"accidentally"""" killed one of James's favorite hunting dogs named Jewel.

Despite this, I would say that James always respected Anna… as much as he was capable of respecting any woman. Because James was really a misogynist, even more than the typical man of his time. His thoughts about marriage, and about the respect one should give one's wife, are clearly articulated in Basilokon Doron, and it's not pretty. (Full text is online here) Essentially, he gave Anna what he thought a wife should have from her husband: condescension, indulgence, honor before other ladies, sexual attention and fidelity (men don't count, ofc). James, one must remember, had a strong sense of himself as a divine right king, God's representative on Earth. The position of queen therefore also had an aura of the divine, and deserved respect for that - but not for her personhood, personality, or ideas. This is the man who is wearing a bejeweled "A" on his hat to celebrate his love for his wife at the same time he denies her access to her child and basically opposing her in court schemes.

Treat her as your own flesh, command her as her Lord, cherish her as your helper, rule her as your pupill, and please her in all things reasonable; but teach her not to be curious in things that belong to her not.

Something interesting is that when James learned of Anna's secret conversion to Catholicism, he told her he had no issue with her following her conscience as long as she kept it under wraps for the sake of political stability. For this time that's remarkably tolerant, both of Anna and of Catholicism.

Both Goodman and Weldon (remember them? writing from totally opposite English Civil War factions, one pro-Stuart and one anti-Stuart) described James as "not very uxorious". Maybe because he was too gay to really love his wife; maybe, as Goodman accused, Anna did not give him much cause to love her (can you blame her!?). But certainly there was not the sort of effusive affection for Anne he would show to his male favorites.

Over time the king and queen lived more and more separately. Until a miscarriage in 1606, after which Anna decided she was done with pregnancies, they continued to sleep together, but emotionally their lives were rather divorced. Especially after 1606 but IIRC even before, a separate "king's court" (dominated by James's male favorites) and "queen's court" developed. Real political power was located in the king's court, of course, but Anna used her influence to create a much more culturally sophisticated and artistically influential court. The Jacobean flourishing of the arts is more attributable to Anna's patronage than to James's (he fell asleep during plays and much more enjoyed watching a good debate).

But, I feel that their relationship somewhat recovered with time. In the more peaceful environment of England, they negotiated a sort of understanding, and had a cool but amicable relationship, sometimes working as partners and sometimes at cross purposes.

Anna's attitude to James's favorites seems to have been ambivalent. On the one hand, she was said to have understood "the king could not exist without his favorites" (I tried to find the source for this quote and failed but I'll look again later), and for his part he allowed her some degree of veto over his favorites, if only so that if she complained later, he could tell her "But you recommended him to me!" But it doesn't seem like she was happily indulgent - rather, pragmatic.

Also, as regards the Gowrie Conspiracy, Michael B. Young, author of King James and the History of Homosexuality, relates a conspiracy theory (not Young's own invention) that the Ruthvens might have lured James in not with a pot of gold (what a ridiculous story) but with sex appeal, and that Anna's reaction to the plot subtly accused him of this. And I believe it because I blindly believe everything that Michael B. Young says.

Even though James barely interacted with her by the point of her death in 1619, he was reportedly pretty upset about it, writing her a commemorative poem and going into a depression. You could say that his failure to appear at her funeral (it was Charles who was chief mourner) was evidence of his not caring very much, but some historians, like IIRC Rictor Norton, say that Anna's death actually triggered a minor breakdown for James, who was now facing his own mortality as well, due to his worsening illnesses. James may have also avoided the funeral because he had a longstanding fear of death, disease, and funerals (he also did not attend Henry Frederick's, and likewise that can be read as absence of love, depression, and/or neuroticism.)

IMO, the M&G monologue that I reblogged is not a bad take on the overall tone. I actually don't think James would have been so self-aware or ever considered that God was against any of his ideas, but it captures the ambivalence.

I hope that's a fair picture and of interest, @thelastplantagenet!

[toph3r-marshmell00w]

‼️ READ BEFORE FOLLOWING ‼️

Hewo!! ☆

I'm topher! I also go by toph, tophie or marshmellow :33 I'm a British, scemo, furry artist! Also a self proclaimed, nerd and geek! I will post my art, reblog, moodboards, random opinions, maybe even use this blog as a little journal! Another thing, I am the biggest tophfucius shipper, I will defend them with my life 🙏

My pronouns are he/thon/they/ze/xe + any neos ^^ do NOT use she/her or it/it's on me. It makes me incredibly uncomfortable.

I am genderfluid + xenos! I am pansexual as well as aegosexual!! :3 I am ambiamorous ^w^

I am in many fandoms, for example we haveeee my fav rn, clone high!! Then we have others like fbacc, fnaf, yfm, eddsworld, sandersides, furry, vocaloid, total drama(minor), MLP, South Park, SML, Invader Zim, FRED figglehorn, welcome home(minor), super Mario, smiling friends, hunter x hunter, rick and Morty(minor), tally hall, horrible histories, football (+ 442oons, I'm also a Bayern Munich supporter!!:33), and probably more I can't remember!! XD But I'll mostly be posting about clone high!! ^^

If you'd like to play games with me, I'm up 4 it but i don't play roblox (srry roblox players) , I used to but I'm more interested in minecraft ^w^ I play both java and bedrock! :DD

My music taste mostly consists of scene music of course as well as emo! Sometimes I like to listen to hyperpop, rock, metal, fangame/fandom music, music boxes(mostly the fnaf music boxes), game soundtrack, vocaloid, music from the old internet and sometimes weird al!! :DD I also have a soft spot for shakira (aka my wife/hj <33)

WHOOP WHOOP!! I'm also a juggalo! :33 my fav song from ICP is confederate flag! ^_^

I have quite a few favorite youtubers! These include, FRED (ofc) , memeulous, Danny Gonzalez, drew gooden, Kurtis Conner, tomska, markiplier, jacksepticeye, saberspark, Flamingo, one topic, TUV, messyourself, imallexx, willNE, James marriott and MUCH more!

I am very very VERY interested in history, I love it so much! Everything from the stone age to the 2010s! I love it!! I do hours of research, make powerpoints, factfiles, read about it etc!

I am also quite interested in things like world cups (precisely the 2014 world Cup), Maned wolves and lop bunnies, graphic novels and space! I love doing research about them and picking up random facts + key info about them! If anyone would like to hear me ramble about em please dm I AM BEGGINGGGG <33 I'll also listen to you ramble aswell :33

In total, I have 6 collections: badges/pins, posters, plushies, figures, stickers and cans! ^^

Other random stuffffzz!!

I'm a multi shipper and I ship like anything except proships :3 Though for clone high, I don't really like joanabe, Joanfk, candidworth, jfgogh (I don't get this ship I'm sorry) and harrucius (I mean it's cute but it's just not 4 me ^_^) My fav ships are tophfucius, tophabe(pls don't bully me 😭), joanrriet, Vanceaser, jfabe, butlertron x scudworth (I dunno the ship name 😔), kahlopatra, tommatt, paultryck, poly Martians, scutters (Scott malkinson x butters, one of my fav rarepairs <33), tophdi, jfucius, harold x leshawna, harold x Ezekiel, Ezekiel x Justin, Noah x Cody and like so much more ships that I can't even remember TwT

I'm a copinglink! My copinglinks are topher bus(CH), benatar (YFM) and tom(EW)!! Copinglinks are a coping mechanism to deal with stress, trauma, or other issues by identifying as someone / something knowingly, willingly, and actively! :3

Kinlist!! :

Top kins: Topher bus, Gandhi(CLONEHIGH!!) , pip pirrup, benatar, puff puff, tom (EW), Confucius(CLONEHIGH!!), pinkie pie and Heidi Turner!!

kins: Matt, Rainbow Dash, Twilight, axel chains, joan of arc(CLONE HIGH SEASON 1), van Gogh(CLONEHIGH!!), JFK(again CLONE HIGH!!), stan marsh, Cody and harold(TD) and Kyle(fbacc)!!

Forgot to mention but Im a shifter :3 (current DR is clone high :D)

OHHH ANDDDDD my birthday is 27th Feb! ^^ so erm that's cool :DD

Here's some of my art!

BOUNDARIES AND DNI LIST‼️

DNI LIST!

・basic DNI criteria (homophobes, transphobes racists, ped0s etc)

・PROSHIPPERS AND COMSHIPPERS.

・People who ship irl people.. That's just weird.

・people who bully/send death threats over ships..

・Anti-xenogenders.

・n@z1s

・ableists

・People I know irl.

・AI artists

・anti-furrys

BOUNDARIES!

・ Idm how old you are, you can interact but if you are above the age of 21 please don't dm me or become close. I have bad experience with people 20+ but idm if they interact or reblog or whatever just as long as they don't try to get close.

・I AM A MINOR‼️ please be aware of that when talking to me.

・If you need someone to talk to/vent to I'm here! ^^ but please ask before venting. Also remember that I am not a therapist and I won't be able to respond to all your vents. Another thing, don't just use me to vent. I'm not your own personal therapist that will help you with your problems :/ if venting is all you want to do with me then you are blocked.

・ do NOT use fem terms on me. Only masc or gender neutral :3

・I have a fear of ladybugs/ladybirds. Please do not bring them up or send photos of them or anything like that, it makes me incredibly uncomfortable, unsafe, anxious and very scared.

・As an artist, I do not like people reposting my art on other apps. I don't care if credit is given i am still incredibly uncomfortable. If you'd like to use my art for a profile picture or anything as such (like that'll ever happen) please ask :)

・DO NOT STEAL OR TRACE MY ART.

Thank you so much 4 reading!! I hope i can make some friends or mutuals! :DD

I hope everyone has a wonderful day/night!! Remember to stay hydrated and take care of yourself <33 love y'all!!/p :33

[smthabsolutelyunhinged]

~ INTRODUCTION ~

HI MY LOVES, IM EMI <3

she/her. pansexual. cisfem. pisces sun. cancer moon. white. american. INFP. 4w5. hufflepuff. marauders stan. james potter + remus lupin + pandora rosier kinnie. aspiring writer/author. artist. bookworm. music lover. halloween enthusiast. broadway lover. massive fan of anything whimsy/gothic/romantic/etc. at some point i might link my spotify/pintrest, but idk yet.

IMPORTANT INFO UNDER THE CUT <3

*i am a minor (17), but i do interact with nsfw content at my own discretion. i am perfectly ok with asks/requests for nsfw headcanons—or thoughts about existing nsfw headcanons—for characters from my fandoms (please understand that while i allow them, i might choose not to answer them based on my own comfort levels at the time of receiving them). HOWEVER as of this moment, i do not actively write smut/nsfw one shots, fan fics, drabbles, etc.*

[any of this can change at any point and i will make it known if it does, but for the time being i do ask that any nsfw requests be for headcanons/thoughts about hcs only].

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

please do ~ dm me (please i’ll literally marry you idc, also talk to me i’m cool), asks, anonymous asks, reblog (obviously), comment, like, send me random thoughts/ideas/headcanons/music recs, interact with me in any way that isn’t like hateful/gross/weird (i’ll cry. dont do it. i’ll cry and it’ll be your fault.) {flirting is allowed tho - i’ll flirt back and then marry you, again idc‼️} also moots and anons are allowed (please do) to come up with other nicknames/use petnames/etc {i like them, i’m a chronically depressed, anxious, words of affirmation girlie with family issues, and i like the validation :)}.

please don’t ~ be weird, hateful, creepy, or gross in any way because i will block you immediately, (and release my scary, aggressive, friend *cough cough ace cough cough* on you, and they will bite you (not in a hot and sexy way either)).

<3 shows ~

the vampire diaries. criminal minds. one tree hill. the originals. outer banks. the 100. gilmore girls. supernatural. heartstopper. boy meets world. downton abbey. chesapeake shores. daisy jones and the six.

<3 movies ~

pretty woman. mystic pizza. twister (1996). little women (1994/2019). hocus pocus. princess and the frog. the harry potter movies. the hunger games. divergent. twilight. coraline. the nightmare before christmas. notting hill. two weeks notice. a cinderella story (2001). the princess diaries. scream (the og trilogy). st elmos fire. the dark knight. pride and predjudice (2005). the many adventures of winnie the pooh. titanic. five feet apart. pirates of the carribean. captain america: civil war. avengers: infinity war. sense and sensibility. the addams family. the family man.

<3 books ~

daisy jones and the six. the harry potter series. the inheritance games trilogy. shatter me. frankenstein. the picture of dorian grey. warrior cats. tales from redwall series. the hunger games trilogy. divergent trilogy. the twilight saga. the chronicles of narnia. the land of stories. the cheerleaders.

<3 other fandoms & music ~

marauders, one direction, harry styles, taylor swift, sabrina carpenter, lana del rey, ethel cain, michael jackson, hozier, noah kahan, abba, fleetwood mac, chappel roan, olivia rodrigo, daisy jones and the six, the weeknd, childish gambino, shawn mendes, jonas brothers, guns and roses, birdy, etc.. (i can almost always find something to like about music- so i listen to a lot of it aside from whats listed)…

<3 tags ~ i might not have actually added these yet :)

#emi thinks - headcanons, fandom thoughts, and fandom ideas

#emi rants - rants and rambles about any and everything

#emi writes - anything i write even tho i havent posted any yet

#emiasks - questions for you guys, questions to the void, anything of that vibe

#emithirsts - me simping over people that don’t exist, being thirsty on the main, that’s it-

#my loves - asks, anons, etc

#gayfroggie<3 - noni’s tag

*there will be individual tags for moots if you want them, so just pick/ask for one, and i’ll assign them <333*

*i currently don’t have any specified anons ~ all emojis are available so if you want to be one just ask :)*

<3 moots ~ i’ll add more as i get them >:)

@xaviisconfused @dilutedmayowater @therewasnofloorbtw @aesthetic-writer18 @crybabygh0sty @noh07

[gaylex-gaylie]

BASIC INFO

Collective Name(s): The Animal Collective, AC for short Collective Pronouns: They/It/That/Those Age (Bodily): 17 [9/20/06] System Hosts: Evan Myers [He/Knife/It], Lexxus/Alex Kralie-Thomas [Ve/He/Pine], Jackie Harley [They/Woof] System CoHosts: BINO/HABIT [It/He/Chomp], Pawprint/Obserpurr [It/He/She], Vincent/Vin Sinclair [He/It/She] Frequent Fronters: Jame “Linguini” [He/They], Observer/Obz [It/He/Lurk], Sanguinary/Prebrand [Maim/Maul/He], Lee [He/Him], X-Virus/X [It/He/She] Rentry: Link! It links to all our other shit and the Carrd there has more info on us!

OTHER INFO

We’re collectively a scemo kid, a raver, and a juggalo! We are very passionate about scene culture specifically as it is a special interest, but are passionate about all our other subcultures as well! We’re an amateur Cryptozoologist, and are very passionate about studying cryptids! We've attended the Mothman Festival, visited the Mothman Museum, talked to Dave Spinks, and are currently planning to check both Flatwoods West Virginia and The Cryptozoology & Paranormal Museum of Littleton off our bucket list! Our favorite cryptid author (besides John Keel and Dave Spinks of course) is George Dudding currently! We love Slenderverse!! It’s our main spinterest alongside cryptozoology, and has been for a long time! We're also always looking for new series to watch, so feel free to suggest us some! Our favorite Slenderseries are OneHundredYardStare, ICANSEETHEGIANT, The Record of Stan Frederick, CoyoteIsAwesome, Whispered Faith, and EverymanHYBRID! We also love Homestuck, Creepypasta, Invader Zim, Ace Attorney, Welcome To Night Vale, MLP, Animal Jam, Webkinz, and Skelanimals!

DNI

Basic DNI. Adam Rosner supporters/apologists. Andrew Hussie supporters/apologists. People who make the “Masky cheesecake” joke. People who use the term “cringe” to bully others. Cringe culture is dead, don't be an asshole. People who debate the existence of creatures from closed practices they are not a part of under the guise of cryptozoological study. It's not your place to debate the validity of those beings. Even though it's on the basic DNI, once again endos and proshippers get off our page. You are not wanted here.

BFYI

We don't mind people using our art for things like PFPs or Rentrys or shit like that, as long as credit is given! Art of members of our system will have a note on it stating so, on those pieces please don't be weird in reblogs or comments. We have a super shitty memory, so that may affect how frequently we respond to DMs. Just feel free to shoot us an extra message! System members often tag posts with “[insert name] post,” to display which of us is posting.

TAGGING GUIDE

#ACart ⇝ All our art! #AClyfe ⇝ Just rambling about our personal life! #ACasks ⇝ Answers to asks, and reblogs of asks to others! #ACbestest ⇝ Gifts people have made for us + general stuff we're in! #ACfriend ⇝ Reblogs from our friends! #ACaugh ⇝ Our tag where we just kind of. Say stuff! #ACreblog/ACreblogs ⇝ General reblogs! This post will be tagged with all the tags above, for easier navigation!

Have a wonderful day, PLUR!!

[wrathofmadelinekahn]

January 2021 Music Wrap-Up

One of my New Year’s Resolutions was to listen to at least 3 new (to me) albums a month and diversify my music taste, since my Spotify Wrapped this year was basically “You Are Not Immune To White Men Telling Stories, feat. Guitars”, and what better way to keep myself accountable than to submit to the mortifying ordeal of being known on the Internet?

I’ll be posting my new listens at the end of each month, give or take a bit (please yell at me if I haven’t done so bc cyberbullying is my love language <3) with a bit of background as to how I found them and my thoughts!

So, in no particular order:

1. You Knew by Mother Falcon

I’d had “Marfa” off this album in a playlist for years, but finally gave in and listened to the whole album last week after going down a YouTube spiral which included their Tiny Desk appearance. One of the few albums in which I like the SOUND of it more than the singing- I wish I knew more about music so I could describe how incredible what they do sounds, but I’ll settle for glorious cacophony. Favorites are “Marigold”, “Dirty Summer”, and “Marfa”.

2. Odetta Sings of Many Things by Odetta Holmes

Forever grateful to @woolstation‘s Folk playlist for having “Troubled” on there, true king shit. HOW have none of you ever told me this woman is everything I’ve been searching for for as long as I’ve had eardrums in the womb?!!! I never want to hear about Joan Baez’s weird boyfriend again, we stan only Odetta, ‘Queen of American Folk Music’ in the Ames household. Genuinely cannot pick a favorite, basically the whole album.

3. West Side Story (Original Cast Album)

Ok, I vaguely remember listening to this in 2016 but was too mentally ill to APPRECIATE it, so I’m counting it as a new listen. Being Puertorican, this was basically The Only Representation I knew of in popular American media growing up unless you’re counting drug dealers in cop shows or that one racist joke in All In The Family that I heard as a kid and STILL think about to this day, so I knew the Big songs from the different revival albums but hadn’t heard the original cast until Saturday, January 23rd, also known as Chita Rivera Day in our hearts and @kissofchita‘s dash. To celebrate both queens I put it on and listened to the whole thing 3 times in a row. I laughed, I teared up (saved the actual tears for watching Chita sing “America” <3), and fell head-over-heels in love. It’s definitely in my top all-time Broadway shows.

4. Song To A Seagull, Joni Mitchell

After months of James @if-only-angels-could-prevail​ banging pots and pans to the tune of Blue, it was actually Spotify’s Discover Weekly that gave me the first dopamine hit I needed to say “Hey, that Joni lady’s on to something here!” Her voice is truly a once-in-a-lifetime sound, I can’t even begin to describe all it manages to evoke in a split-second. This is her first album and I have been assured that it only gets better from here, which is bonkers to think about since, as stated in the beginning, Storytime feat. Guitars Is My Shit. I have no doubt that I’ll be slowly but surely making my rambling way through her discography. Favorites are “I Had A King”, “Night in the City”, “Nathan La Franeer”, and “Cactus Tree”.

5. Stay Alive by Laura Jane Grace

Again I owe James my whole life and wig. I was already an Against Me! and Devouring Mothers fan (it might be an overstatement to say that Transgender Dysphoria Blues was instrumental in keeping me alive through the darkest days of suicidal thoughts, dysphoria, and anxiety in 2018-2019, but not much of one), but had no idea Laura Jane had done a quarantine album until they mentioned it the other day and I immediately listened to the whole thing. I feel like this album will be a slow-burner for me; she’s always poured her heart and soul into every word she writes and sings and I know from experience that when her work hits, it’ll knock me off my ass in the best way possible. Even though she’s talked about not wanting to be seen solely as A Trans Artist and I will support everything she does, my wildest concert dream is to see her perform True Trans Soul Rebel live.

[amaliabalash]

It Chapter Two

Okay y’all I said I wanted to write a post of thoughts I’ve had on the movies (most the second, but here and there from the first), adaptation choices, etc., so here it is after five ten viewings of Chapter Two and a ton of viewings of the first movie as well. I stand by my initial sum up: I love it as a follow up if you’re watching it for the coming of age story of the group of friends that fight an evil being, but it’s mehhhh as a horror movie about a clown that kills children....which means I love it because I don’t give a fuck about the clown. 

I love the Losers love for each other. I hate any moment that separates them or causes conflict between them, because in the book they are magically, instantly united as they join together that summer, and nothing stops that, and that’s one of my favorite things about the book. So the movie taking that complete level of solidarity hurts. But even so, when it comes down to it, again and again we see how much they all love and care for each other and I am all about that. Now below the cut, have 4300 words of rambling thoughts in bullet point form!

Mike: I love and hate what he was given for this movie. Not getting incapacitated by Bowers and hospitalized (as in the book), and instead actually getting to be in the final confrontation? THANK YOU, YES. Lying to the Losers? No, not a fan. At first I was mostly focused on being grateful he was in the final battle because I think it’s awesome they’ve all together, but the more I’ve thought about it, the more upset I am that he still got kinda screwed. He had more to do than he did in the first movie, but then like...he doesn’t get a scene of going and finding the rock and having his own flashbacks, and then he doesn’t get a separate confrontation with Pennywise either once they’re in the sewers (like Ben and Bev, Eddie and Richie, and Bill do). Being the crazy librarian’s assistant is bunk. And the whole Native American ritual shit...

The Ritual of Chüd: I fully understand not doing the ritual exactly like in the book, because hello, a metaphysical battle of wills, biting each other’s tongues in your psyche and getting thrown around is just a wee bit complicated to film. But making it so that Mike got the ritual from Native Americans (the ~mystical face distortion especially bugged me), and then it also didn’t even work...ugh. And again, the lying, ughhhh. A battle of wills was still basically how they defeated It, at least? Also, like, maybe it’s iffy to use some ancient tribal ritual that Bill got from a book, too, but I think it works (in a story sense, I mean) because they’re kids when they first try it. They go “hey, there’s this thing, we believe it’s the answer” and so it works. And it works so much better as a thing the kids found in a book and believed in, than as a ritual adult Mike got from Native Americans that never even worked. However, James McAvoy’s delivery of the line, “You stole it...from Native Americans?” is incredible and hilarious. And on the note of the smoke scene...

The Clubhouse: I don’t fucking care how relatively little sense it made to include the clubhouse, and how Ben’s “the hole was already dug out and oh hey btw I like architecture we forgot to mention that in the last movie” was paper thin, because I AM SO HAPPY THAT THEY MADE THE CLUBHOUSE. I’m glad they didn’t retroactively have them do the smoke scene, because it REALLY wouldn’t have made sense with the first film to them suddenly have done that in the midst of everything and not used it, but I’m sad it wasn’t in the first film to start with. I understand that the budget, like, doubled for chapter two. Happy they included the clubhouse at all, but super eh on including the smoke scene in the way they did. Again, the kids going “hey let’s try this thing” and it working through belief makes so much more sense to me. BUT CLUBHOUSE! :D

Stan: fuuuuuuuuck. They gave Stan so much more in chapter two than in one, somehow? I hate that in the book, the only thing we get of adult Stan is from his wife’s perspective, and then he’s dead. By giving Stan the letter at the end, as well as his added kid scenes, I feel like Stan was given some justice. And on the small book nod end, I loved him doing the bird puzzle, because book Stan is a big ol’ bird nerd. Also when Stan asks what he looks like when he’s older in that first scene and Bev has that look and says like now but taller? OW. ALSO the head-spider thing, “so you don’t get spiders in your hair,” nice horrible touch there. And this isn’t a Stan characterization thing, but one of the legs going through Stan’s eye and Richie being the one to say “you’ve got to be fucking kidding me” also feels appropriate because eye horror is a book Richie thing. And on the note of the letter (which I love), I want to know what Stan wrote to Patty. Because like, wow, after her husband seemingly out of nowhere kills himself, she still sends these letters to his old friends. Patty Uris, you’re a good woman.  

Ben: I am generally in favor of Ben/Bev, and thought they had some nice moments in the new movie, but I haaaaate that Ben kept the yearbook page. It made no sense, and it was kind of weird for him to like...obsess over that for the next 27 years of his life when he hadn’t seen her? I think it would have been sweeter, honestly, if upon returning to Derry he was just HIT with how much he loved her, through that funky magic that bonded the Losers and broke them apart. Back in Derry, the feelings return freshly, even if they’re 27 years old (like happened for Richie, according to Bill Hader and my heart). If that had happened, and then they just...ended up sticking together afterwards, I’d prefer it. Lose the kiss, lose the yearbook thing, but keep the end scene with them on the boat, that’s fine. Also why the fuck was Ben in summer school, that flashback didn’t make sense, should’ve been in the library, please. If only we could have had a middle ground (aka the book) between the 1990 series where Ben was kind of presented as a manwhore and the movie where he’s still in love with the same girl from when he was 13 and that’s why he was alone. In the book he just...didn’t have much of an interest in the romance I think? Idk. Ben keeping the yearbook page is dumb and it was overdone but otherwise Ben and Bev are cute. But as for the first movie and flashback moments, I love little baby Ben Hanscom with all my heart, what a sweetheart. Sorry they made you creepily obsess on the same girl for the rest of your life, Ben. 

MEMORIES: THEY WERE ALLOWED TO KEEP THEIR MEMORIES! I AM SO GRATEFUL! Some people are like “but now Richie has to remember this” and I’m like, the book fucks me up when I read it knowing that none of them will remember each other, and that none of them will remember Eddie and his sacrifice, how bravely he fought, fuuuuuck. So I’d rather sad remembering and honoring than completely forgetting.  This is the happier ending, it really is. 

Bill: He wasn’t really sick??? ow??? Like it makes his determination to search for Georgie make more sense, but oof. I have mixed feelings on this because in the book Bill is genuinely too sick to go with Georgie, but like...the “just because you did x doesn’t mean this horrible thing is your fault” is a really poignant emotional point to make. On the acting side, both Jaeden Martell and James McAvoy did really well with the stuttering, not making it over the top or just...forgetting about it. It felt realistic to those I’ve known with stutters. I think I’m gonna make a separate bullet point for how the marriages were handled, but, it makes me sad that Bill and Audra weren’t shown to be loving like in the book. Bill actually had a good relationship with his wife and that’s a bummer to take away. The choice to have Bill’s fervor in going after It right then be about seeing another kid get taken instead of because he finds Audra’s purse, though, seemed like a solid choice, it worked really well. It keeps the story tighter in a sense, because Bill’s guilt about Georgie is shown to be one of his driving forces across both movies. And...okay that ties right into the marriages thing so...

Marriages: I am grateful that they didn’t have Audra and Tom go to Derry like in the book. There is SO MUCH book content that didn’t make it in, stuff that is really plot relevant, but like...fitting all of that in would have been crammed and we’d lack the emotional depth. Chapter Two is about the Losers, and the sacrifices that were made were there so that we could really focus on the Losers and their relationships with teach other and their experiences. It makes me sad that Bill doesn’t get his positive relationship with Audra, that they’re not shown to actually love each other, that he’s no longer wearing a wedding ring in that last scene with the phone call with Mike, but god. If they had had Audra and Tom come to Derry, it would have muddled the story more than it’d flesh it out. So not worth it to waste a single moment on that, as much as I wish Tom still got killed by It because it’s what he deserves. I almost wish that Bev’s relationship with Tom had been changed, but idk what I’d change it to. Including the abuse was rough, but at least it wasn’t as severe as in the book? It couldn’t be, anyway, because again, he doesn’t follow her to Derry, so he can’t be quite as evil as he is in the book or it’d be incomplete to expect her to just...leave him. Aaaaand Eddie and Myra. I CAN’T BELIEVE THEY CAST THE SAME ACTRESS AS MYRA AND HIS MOM. It’s completely book accurate, there’s that bit of narrative where he acknowledges that looking at a younger pic of his mom next to one of Myra and they could be twins, but damn, that casting choice. I feel bad for Myra, in all incarnations. A character meant only to be the embodiment of an oedipal complex...or, the projection of one? However you’d say that.

Bill & Bev: a whole bullet point just to say, thank god they didn’t sleep together, that one little memory based kiss and move on? THANK YOU. And that kiss worked, not like the wtf so awkward kiss between Bill and Bev at the restaurant in the mini-series. Also not driving home the “Audra looks like Bev.......” thing. I’m cool with that. Though I still think it’d have been hilarious if they’d cast Bryce Dallas Howard as Audra.

Beverly: I was talking to a friend about the first movie a few months ago and she said she hated how Bev was made into a damsel in the first movie, needing to be rescued...and I can get that, but compared to the book and the 1990 series, Bev gets SO MUCH MORE and I love her so much. I love that she’s pushing them to keep fighting against It in the first one, and that in the second she’s supporting the others still and encouraging, and in the final battle moments, she’s never a damsel. It’s just when she was in the deadlights. The scene with Mrs. Kersh was fucking insane though. Like, hugely increased budget from the first movie, and....they choose to spend it on a naked granny monster????? TWICE???? I feel like that scene could have been legitimately creepy but then NAKED. GRANNY. MONSTER. I have nothing deep to say on that scene but I’m so baffled. 

CGI and the Monsters: On the note of the atrocity of the naked granny monster...it must say a lot about what Andy Muschietti is afraid of that he includes these weird, gross CGI monsters. Also I feel like he’s afraid of old age, between the Mrs. Kersh monster and the focus on Mr. Keene’s old-ness. But like...the leper and the naked granny monster are both just really weird and gross, but not like scary? I mean, the leper being a physical representation of infection is specific to Eddie, and it sticking it’s tongue down Mrs. Kaspbrak’s throat is truly utterly disgusting, but...again, the horror of it is grossness, not scariness? And god the fucking naked granny monster just kills me because that scene would legit be scary if not for that. Instead, multiple times I’ve heard people in the theater whisper “what the fuck” during that scene. 

The Losers Fighting: Possibly my biggest complaint about the two movies is the choice to have the Losers have big fights.  For Dramatic Movie Purposes I get it, I guess, but in the book as each Loser joins, that’s it, there’s no question, fate is clicking into place, they are meant to be together. So the fight after the House on Neibolt in the first movie has always bugged me. Mike lying to them bugs me. Them being like, “fuck this I’m out” bugs me. However, the ONE concession I’ll make on this point is that at least the fight in the first movie was used in the second as an excuse to show new flashbacks. But the lack of unity is always gonna make me sad about these adaptations. 

Pennywise: I am NOT saying I want more Pennywise in the movie, but I think that there is a slight plot hole in the way that his motivations and his effect aren’t directly addressed in the films. Like, including the Adrian Mellon murder without including the whole thing where it’s relevant to It because It’s evil seeps into Derry and is an integral part of Derry makes the scene make less sense. Though, again, I’m cool with them not including Derry just completely falling apart when It dies because of that connection, bc that’d be too much time not about the Losers. But, yeah, motivation wise, it doesn’t feel clear why It wants the Losers to come home. Knowing in the book that It experienced fear and then true anger for the first time, that It wants revenge, makes the ultimately Dumbass Move of luring them back at least make some sense. 

Richie: I’m gonna try to focus on Richie things that don’t necessarily relate to Reddie first. I was super unsure about Bill Hader when I heard about his casting at first, because I’d never seen him do the drama I knew the role would need, but damn. He was a perfect Richie, from the comedy to the holy shit drama pain. And it’s a bummer that the whole cgi thing was needed (though, like, it was, because Finn Wolfhard does not look the same anymore) because I’d like to see the more nuanced version of his performance of the arcade scene and stuff. I’m so grateful for the depth given to Richie with the closeted storyline, as much as it hurts. This movie let (some) characters have some actual depth and it’s wonderful. Let’s see... I kind of hate that there was still the fatphobic focuses in the story as a whole, but like...those lines only coming from the trashmouth was at least appropriate. And his delivery throughout his whole bit with Bill outside the Neibolt house in Chapter Two about Richie said it best last time, is delivered so perfectly and I love it, particularly, “You’re lucky we’re not measuring dicks?” Excellent job, Bill Hader. And even though, as I said above, I am no fan of the Losers fighting and Richie trying to run off, the part where Ben says “at least I got Richie to stay” and then Richie bursts out of the back of the hotel to sneak off is way too funny to me. Him not writing his own material is kind of hilarious. And it goes in with a theme in the movie where the Loser’s adult success is a little bit tainted, which isn’t necessarily the case in the book - other things are off, no children, marrying their parents, etc., but their success doesn’t really have anything off about it. Book Richie finally does perfect his voices and that’s how he makes his money. But I’ll accept him not actually being great at comedy (not that the bit we saw at the start of the movie was great comedy) for the set up of the joke of Eddie saying “I FUCKING KNEW IT!” also oops mentioned Eddie. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  So why not go there now! 

Eddie and Richie: I didn’t think they’d actually fucking do it. I saw a still of young Richie next to the R+ on the kissing bridge, and Reddies freaking out about WHAT IF, and I was like “that’d be cool but lol no they won’t actually do it.” But then they ACTUALLY DID IT. I’m grateful I saw the movie at the first possible showing because I DIDN’T see the still with young Richie where you can see the full R+E until after, so it was a surprise. This is again where I applaud Bill Hader’s performance, and the directing and script writing and all, because all of those little moments where Richie is just attuned to Eddie are so great. He’s always been the one Richie focused on most for jokes (defense mechansim!), but then calling out for Eddie every time there’s potential danger and they’re separated - when the bat wing fortune cookie is attacking Eddie, in Neibolt when the spider-head monster is temporarily gone, when the balloon starts inflating after the ritual and they’re moving apart. And then of course we have the whole end, his desperation over wanting to save Eddie, his inability to accept that it’s over. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuck! And god, like, he seems to just forget to even care about the whole Pennywise thing once Eddie’s hurt, he’s like “we gotta get him out of here” ignoring the “we still have to deal with this fucking clown” part of it entirely. On the lighter note though...the bickering! I LOVE THE BICKERING SO MUCH. In both movies, even during serious conversations, there’s so often Eddie and Richie bickering in the background (as well as main scene bickering, of course, like the hammock, or Richie teasing Eddie about getting married, his mom, his job, etc). In Chapter Two you can hear them bickering about Eddie saying he’s got these various ailments and Richie saying it’s in his head and he just reads shit on the internet while Bill and Bev talk about life, and down in the sewers Eddie has to pick on Richie bringing an actual token and they bicker about how that’s not gonna burn well neither will the inhaler. I LOVE IT. Also, in a story so focused on mirroring the past, Eddie should have kissed Richie out of the deadlights like Ben kissed Bev, that is all. I love every single thing about the scene with the three doors, but I especially love how those dumbasses, once Pennywise is no longer reaching for them, suddenly stop finding the dog behind a door deep in the sewers/cave/whatever suspicious??? They’re like, oh look this is fine, what a cute puppy that randomly made it down here??? What even, and I love it. The hammock scene is ridiculously adorable and Richie’s little sigh when Eddie’s sticking his foot in his face, so great. I have a lot to say about Eddie’s paralysis in the face of Richie being attacked, but honestly I feel that’s more Eddie than it is Reddie related so I’ll get there later, but Richie being the one to encourage him in this totally sincere way and then make the fat joke about Myra...in character af and a really charming scene despite the fact that, again, I am not a fan of fat jokes? That is just the language these two idiots speak. A moment of sincerity cannot possibly be left alone.  And on that note...

Eddie’s Death: okay that “paragraph” was very long so I’m making a separate bullet point for this, at least as it relates to Reddie. I could just quote line by line and be like “oh, shit, my heart” but that isn’t really relevant. Overall, that’s my sentiment as Richie is trying to save Eddie and so focused on him. But this is more about the “I fucked your mother” bit. I saw a lot of people upset about that, and others seemed to understand that it’s not a throwaway joke (like the post I JUST reblogged, but I was thinking about this before). Dumb jokes and bickering is their love language, duh. And I think in those moments, it legit made the most sense for Eddie to say “I fucked your mother” to Richie, the king of inappropriate your mom jokes (at least in reference to Eddie - I fucked your mom, Eddie’s mom’s vagina on Halloween, smells worse than Eddie’s mom’s slippers, etc.). I’m working on a theory that not only is that a communication of love/the importance of their relationship (like, he makes the effort to make that joke when he’s fucking DYING, something specifically for Richie), but about comfort. Dunno if it’s about comforting himself in the face of knowing he’s dying, or comforting Richie, or both, but...honestly, falling into a familiar pattern after all of this sincerity and fear just came pouring out of Richie makes perfect fucking sense to me. And, there’s also nearly a solid 2.5 minutes between cutting away from that scene and Richie running to join them in the final takedown (and tearing It’s fucking arm off, which is amazing, and I love Bev’s little shocked face right after that happens). There’s room for conversation, for sincere comments, if you want to imagine them there. But I’m not disappointed they didn’t do any real “I love you” moments or something, because I think we got a very in character and appropriate response. And I’ll say again, Richie’s anguish and denial, holy shit, my heart hurts. 

Eddie: Eddie Kaspbrak, my love. I was saving Eddie for last because I have so much to say but idek how to say it. I don’t know why, but I wasn’t expecting adult Eddie to have the same hyper, angry energy of kid Eddie, let alone an amped up version, but I LOVE THIS SMALL, ANGRY MAN. James Ransone was brilliant casting. When he was first cast (not that I knew who he was), I was like, eh he looks alright, we’ll see. But watching him in action and watching Jack Dylan Grazer in action, damn, they are well matched. And their eyes are very alike. But more than the physicality, just in general, damn he was a great Eddie. I’m not super solid on how well he matches up to book Eddie’s characterization overall, but if I see a major overlap in book and movie Eddie in any book scene, it’s when Eddie sprays his inhaler at the giant eyeball and just flips out: ““Fight It!” Eddie raved at the others. “It’s just a fucking Eye! Fight It! You hear me? Fight It, Bill! Kick the shit out of the sucker! Jesus Christ you fucking pussies I’m doing the Mashed Potatoes all over It AND I GOT A BROKEN ARM!”" But anyway. Movie Eddie. I love his angry bravado, because you KNOW so much is bravado. That one post that says Eddie has small dog syndrome is fucking legit. Eddie is hilarious throughout (again, kudos to James fucking Ransone), but then the emotional scenes? Oh my GOD the emotional scenes!!!  Eddie has moments of fear but still mostly maintains that bravado until the spider head thing attacks (even before it attacks Richie specifically, you can tell he’s pinned to the wall in fear). And after Richie is saved, and Bill comes to yell at him, BOOM the emotion kills me. That shield is gone and he’s just back to a scared little kid, and there’s such an emotional realness to the rest of his scenes (except when he’s bickering with Richie, of course). He’s scared and he’s hurt. And the way the Losers support him through that - Richie talking Eddie up to encourage him, reminding him all of the ways he’s been badass so far, and the entire interaction with Bev “This kills monsters” “Does it?” “If you believe it does.” His face, the gentleness of that scene, it kills me and I love them so much. It’s just a beautiful moment. Also beautiful on the other end of the spectrum is Eddie psyching himself up to save Richie this time, dammit, “IF YOU BELIEVE IT DOES! BEEP BEEP MOTHERFUCKER!” And then his face! Actually, his face when he first sees Richie in the deadlights is worth mentioning, and his “holy shit!” and then happiness after (you know, until THAT happens). IT GIVES ME FEELINGS. Ummmm let’s see, oh, I fucking LOVE that they referenced the gazebo line holy shit! Imagine being Jack Dylan Grazer and having your improv from when you were 11/12 become not only one of the most iconic lines in the first movie, but get referenced in the second!!! For mirroring kind of purposes, when they go down the well, Eddie is the one to mention grey water first in both movies, love that. Also love that in the first movie he has the line about how 89% or whatever of home accidents happen in the bathroom, then he gets stabbed in the bathroom. Which, like, that scene? Again, he is so fucking FUNNY. The initial shock of “HOLY SHIT HE JUST GOT STABBED IN THE FACE” fights with “HIS RESPONSE IS SO DAMN FUNNY.” His faces all the way through to “you should cut that fucking mullet, it’s been like thirty years man” is GOOD. SHIT. I love Eddie Kaspbrak so much. Also the delivery of “what the fuck!” after the leper run in as an adult. Oh, and speaking of the leper, Eddie Kaspbrak saves the fucking day by helping them understand how to actually fucking kill It, the way he almost actually killed it earlier. He’s fucking dying and he has this realization, this way to help them, and I’m just gonna be a broken record of I LOVE EDDIE. And I love James Ransone’s portrayal (and Jack Dylan Grazer, for that matter, since I am talking about both movies kinda though mostly Chapter Two). 

...and that’s more than sufficient for now. 

[hotdogjumpingfrog5]

It’s Strange - Chapter 13

Previous Chapters: Chapter One, Chapter Two, Chapter Three, Chapter Four, Chapter Five, Chapter Six, Chapter Seven, Chapter Eight, Chapter Nine, Chapter Ten, Chapter Eleven, Chapter Twelve 

~

October 27th, 1986

The five losers hung around by the entrance by the library, like they normally did. All except for Mike, who was homeschooled, and Beverly and Ella were still at their lockers.

They gathered around talking about their courses, what they were doing for Halloween, etc.

“So g-g-guys, w-what is e-everyone d-d-doing for H-Halloween?” Bill asks

“Me and Richie will be going trick-or-treating.” said Eddie

“Yeah, I got my handy dandy silly string just like I did last year!’ said Richie

“But we’re 15, you guys can come to mine and watch scary movies with me and Mike if you want.” said Stan

“Nah, we’re fine.” Eddie responds, “We do everything together.”

“Seriously, what if you guys get spotted by the people who go here, or even worse, seniors!” Ben said

“Ben’s got a p-p-point you know.” said Bill

“Well, we wear masks, besides, Dusty and Will are coming with us too.” Richie responded

Then, Bev and El joined the group, looking at the ground.

Ella had something in her hand what appeared to be a note.

“E-El, w-what’s that?” Bill asked

“Nothing.” she looked down at the floor

“Are you sure?” Ben asked, concerned, noticing they looked pissed off

Bev sighed and butted in the awkward few seconds of silence

“We found these notes in our locker,” said Bev

The note read: 

Dirty sluts, everyone knows you girls sleep in the same bed. 

Everyone looked at the note with absolute surprise and disbelief, the group have been called fags out of random and are one of the laughing stocks of Derry High, but this had crossed the line. 

“Ooh, spicy!” Richie laughed, while Eddie gave him a punch in the arm. Eddie got used to those jokes about him and Ella’s mom, but wasn’t going to hear anything about his own sister

“Richie, was this you?” Bev said, annoyed

“Fuck no! You guys can’t take a joke? Jesus fuck.” Richie huffed

“Or you, Eds?” Ella looked over at him

“Oh my god, El, why would I write that about my own sister and friends?” Eddie groaned

“Greta.” Bev thought hard, “Who else can it possibly be?”

“Bev, probably not, she hardly said a word to us since grade nine.” said Stan

“I f-f-forgot about her existence even.” said Bill, “D-don’t w-w-worry g-guys, w-we know it’s n-not t-true.” 

Eddie and Richie made the most cringiest faces just from hearing her name, they didn’t want to have the image of that ogre Greta impaled in their minds.

“Even if it was her, she will lay off slowly, like she’s doing already. Like Stan said, she hardly said anything to us since the start of grade ten!” Ben convinced

~

October 31st, 1986

The night has arrived. Halloween night. It’s after 6:15 pm, lanterns and costumes glowing up the streets of Derry-Hawkins

Steve drives Dustin, Eddie, Will, and Richie to their first destination: the suburbs of Derry.

“No one else wanted to come with you guys?” Steve asked them

“Yeah, they all think we’re ‘too old’“ said Dustin

“We kind of are. This was mostly Richie’s idea, but it’s free candy I guess.” said Eddie

“Oh yeah, how’s Eleven doing, Rich?” Dustin asked, “Haven’t seen her in a few weeks.”

“I dunno, but they’re doing something tonight.” Richie said, “Do I look like Mike to you?”

“Yes you do.” said Will

What Will mentioned made the rest of the car snicker discretely, but as Richie heard their muffles laughs he rolled his eyes at the fact him and Mike are twins.

“But yeah, everyone in our group had other plans tonight. What about the rest of your party?” asked Eddie

“Lucas and Max are spending the evening together, same with Mike and Eleven.” said Dustin

“Ooh, spicy!” Richie said with a weird voice

“Shut up, Richie!” Eddie groaned

“Guys, keep things PG.” said Steve, “Anyways, we’re here.”

The four of them hopped out of Steve’s car, gathering their cloaks and masks they put together, to conceal their identities.

“Remember boys, I pick you up here at 8.” Steve reminded

They all nodded and said their okays, then shut their doors before Steve drove off.

The four of them turn to face the street, while hearing the echoes of ‘Trick or treat!’ ring down the streets

Dustin and Will went on one side of the street, while Richie and Eddie would be on another. Then, they would switch sides of one street before meeting and moving onto the next.

**1.5 hours later**

Before long, the four of them had finished the streets of Derry, and Steve picked them up to go to Hawkins.

“Thanks Steve!” Dustin said when Steve dropped them off to their first neighbourhood of Hawkins

“No problem, so you’re done at 9:30?” said Steve

“No, Steve,” Dustin groaned, “Come on, it’s not a school night! 10:00!”

“Fine. You know people stop answering their doors after 10 right?” 

“Whatever,” Dustin responded, “Just be here at 10.”

“I wonder who I’m going to spray my next can of silly string at.” Richie smirked while looking at Steve

“Richard if you do that, I will end you.” said Steve

“Don’t do it.” said Will, “That’s just rude.”

“Come on, Willy!” Richie responded, “Halloween is supposed to be a night of tricks and treats.”

Eddie huffed at Richie’s behaviour, not even bothering to tell him to shut up this time, it was just too exhausting for Eddie.

“Wow, can I try?” Dustin asked

“No, get your own!” Richie then sprayed a bit on Dustin

“Behave yourselves.” Steve butted in, “And have fun. Remember, 10:00, and you guys better be ready.”

The pairs of them went on different sides of the streets like they did in Derry, and switched sides when they were done the other.

While finishing one particular house, Will needed to take a break. It was now sometime after 9. 

When comforting Will, Dustin found that Will’s eyes were moving in a weird way, back and forth, but Dustin figured this was apart of Will’s strange epileptic moments.

Dustin turned around, and echoing in the distance, was Troy, James, and a few other seniors in the car blaring music, and yelling nonsense at every trick or treater in the street

“Fuck.” Dustin said, then dragged him and Will into the bushes

The two of them stood there in the hedges, they were on a stranger’s property, but they didn’t care. They just didn’t want to get seen by them. 

They notice the car drive slowly in the street, continuing yelling nonsense and didn’t look like they were going to leave just yet. Probably drunk, Dustin and Will thought. As a matter of fact, they had pulled over to the opposite side of the road.

Dustin and Will noticed Richie and Eddie coming along and going to one house, then walk back on the street. 

“Hey, frogface!” Troy called out

Richie and Eddie didn’t seem to notice, and continued along

“Hey, FROGFACE!” he called out again

They still didn’t notice, and one of the seniors honked their horn

“Oh my god are you fucking deaf or something?!” said Troy, “Your Hawaiian shirt is hella ugly. Who’s that, another gay friend of yours??”

“Sorry, but who are you?” Eddie asked

“Fuck off, queer.” said James, “We only care about the one and only, Mike Wheeler. Out trick or treating in grade 10? What a fucking loser you guys are!”

The rest of the gang laughed obnoxiously, Richie rolling his eyes

“Excuse me, but do I fucking look like Mike Wheeler to you?” Richie answered, “I’m the hotter twin.”

“Ah, so frogface has a brother!” said Troy, “Don’t flatter yourself, you’re just a frogface with glasses.”

“Speaking of which,” a tanned figure leered out from the other side of the passenger seat, “I think I know you guys.”

He was looking more at Eddie, and Richie or Eddie thought they recognized him.

“Really?” Richie’s voice dropped, “How fucking so?”

“It’s me, Kevin,” said Kevin, “Thank fuck Ben and my annoying aunt no longer live with us, they’re annoying as hell.”

“So are you guys. Please leave.” said Eddie

“Or what, Kaspbrak?” 

“H-How do you know my -”

“Don’t bother flattering yourself either, girly boy, you and your sister are both ridiculous too. But now I have your stupid friend Max taking Ella’s place at St. Peter’s. Neither of them know any social skills. Fucking idiots.” Kevin rambled

“You have no right to critisize my sister or any of our other friends.” Eddie growled, “That’s our own job.”

“Eds...” Richie nudged

Eddie huffed, knowing if they said another word to those random greasers, they were dead.

“Whatever faggots,” said Troy, “Tell your other faggot twins and the rest of your stupid friends to go fuck themselves.”

Then, the car sped off into the night air, going anywhere, with incoherent echoes roaming down the street

“Fucking assholes.” said Richie

Dustin and Will came out of the bushes, rushing over to the opposite side.

“You guys okay??” Dustin asked

“I guess.” Richie looked down

“Look, I just can’t believe they would insult us or our own siblings.” said Eddie, “They’re idiots.” 

“Ooh, Richie and Eddie don’t like when people are rude to their brother and sis!” Dustin teased

The two of them looked at Dustin, including Will, the look that said Dustin, just stop talking

“Oh, sorry.” Dustin said calmly

“After this street, want to cut this trip short? You know, in case they come back?” Will suggested

They all agreed, not even groaning or arguing, they had enough candy, and Steve was probably right, maybe after 9:30 it’s time to start heading home.

~

November 1st, 1986

It was now almost 11 o’clock, and Nancy, Johnathan, Emma, and Steve had woke up an hour ago after they fell asleep after a long night of handing out candy and watching horror movies at Steve’s house

The four of them spent time together for the first time in a while, they were now in college which meant not as much time would be spent, so they cherished every moment of it.

After spending the morning having breakfast, pigging out on the leftover candy, and watching television, when it became just after 12 Johnathan suggested they take a walk on the trail behind Steve’s house. The trail lead to different areas, including the centre of Hawkins, a neighbourhood two blocks away, and even Hawkins High. 

As they were walking, they were talking while the November breeze hit their skin. Sweater weather. Cloudy day just after Halloween; perfect. 

Steve often spit every corner they took, the three of them giving him disgusted looks

“That’s just gross.” said Johnathan

“What, it’s normal for guys to hock and spit.” Steve responded

“Ugh!” Catherine exclaimed, looking at the ground

“What is it Ems?” Nancy turned around

“What the hell is this?” Emma said, noticing some string and toilet paper on the ground

“Ugh, probably stuff those immature middle schoolers used from last night.” said Steve, luckily they haven’t come into our neighbourhood.”

“They still come here?” said Nancy

“Nah,” said Steve, “Not after my mom threatened to call their parents and the police last year.”

“I bet weirdos hang around the trail at night.” said Johnathan

The rest of them agreed, knowing for a fact they did. That’s what trails are filled with at night. Creeps.

They continued walking along the trail, and next thing they knew they were right behind Hawkins High. Memories flooded back when they looked at Hawkins High, even though they only graduated in June it felt like years ago. Now their siblings were the ones in high school. 

A few high schoolers and middle schoolers could be seen playing in the basketball court, but they were just leaving. 

“I know this sounds crazy,” Nancy said out of the blue, “But do any of you feel like we’re being watched?”

“Nah.” said Johnathan

“Probably those weird middle schoolers that think Hawkins High is their land but it ain’t.” said Steve

“No Steve,” Emma whispered, “I feel it too.”

Her eyes turned black, and nose began falling like a waterfall out of the blue.

“Emma, you okay?” Nancy asked, “Yeah I think we should go, when Emma does this it usually means there’s some sort of danger lurking around.”

The four of them started fast walking back onto the trail, Nancy clutching onto Emma comforting her, but their choice of going back onto that trail may have been a grave mistake.

As the back on Hawkins High started becoming out of sight, they spotted a weird object that they knew they hadn’t seen when they came that direction. 

A refrigerator. 

“What the hell?” said Johnathan

“What is a refrigerator doing in the middle of the fucking path?” said Steve

As Steve was about to open it, Nancy and Emma exclaimed “NO!”

“What? Why not?”

“There might be something fishy in there. That was not here earlier.” Johnathan convinced

“Fishy! Very punny, Johnathan!” Steve laughed as he opened the fridge door

But what he saw made him fall back in horror and gag and the others gasp in horror, also on the verge of gagging. The retched smell of dead animals and severed human body parts filled the air around them.

“Do you like what you see, Stevey?” said a sinister voice from behind the four of them, making them jump

Behind them, stood four boys. The guys that were supposedly “missing and murdered” in Derry; Henry Bowers, Patrick Hockstetter, Victor Criss, and Reginald Huggins. Patrick and Victor were the only ones wearing wigs, but quickly threw them to the side of the path.

“W-Who are you?” Steve stammered

“You sound a lot like B-B-Bill,” Henry laughed, “We were never who we said we were. It told us to mess with you guys too.”

“How do you even know about -” Nancy got interrupted

“Shut up, Tozier.” Henry growled, “I know you are related to that four eyed fuck and his other gay twin. We’ve been watching the losers from Derry and your other loser siblings from Hawkins. All of them. Hargrove has been watching you guys too the past year. We got It and the mind flayer’s handy dandy little friend after the dweebs of Hawkins-Derry. It messed with our final one, but now the thing will probably mess with your minds too.

”W-What thing?” Steve asked

“Spicy news too you guys,” Patrick said slyly, “Marsh and wheezy boy’s sister are lesbian for each other, in case you didn’t know. Everyone know about the lesbian fun they’ve been having. Just like everyone knows about you, Evans. You and those other girls are the most filthy and desperate shits of Derry-Hawkins, and you know it.” 

Emma gulped, she hadn’t heard those rumours about her since that day in March in the cafeteria where she humiliated Carol in front of the school with her telekinesis. 

“Bev and Ella are probably screwing right now. Makes me so fucking horny just thinking about it.” Belch snickered

“More spicy news,” said Victor looking at Nancy, “Hargrove and Mrs. Wheeler got the feels for each other.”

“No that can’t be -”

“Shut up, Wheeler.” Henry growled, “You’re just like your brother Tozier, don’t know when to shut up. Neither you, Evans, Billy’s sister, Marsh, Kaspbrak’s sister, or any girl for that matter should speak. Girls are nothing but pieces of shits and sluts who need to be controlled.”

This infuriated the four of them, but were all too afraid too speak as they were armed with knives and Patrick’s blowtorch. 

The four of them tried to get away, but it was useless since Patrick, Victor, and Belch took a hold of them.

“Just like Bill and Mike’s group, you losers are trying too hard.” said Henry, “You tried to go to the cops on us. They’ll never believe you, even if you decide to go back to them again. They think we’re dead. Oscar Butch cop of Derry-Hawkins was my dad. I was the one who killed him. He fucking deserved it. We faked our own deaths to continue torturing as well as being a slave for It.”

“You guys are sick and terrible people!” Steve said angrily

“Look who’s speaking, the failed Steve Harrington.” Henry chuckles, “Billy Hargrove is the real shit, not you. He’s also Hawkins keg king. You Steve, well, you’re a pussy.”

As the Bowers gang laughed, Emma struck Henry in the face with just a bare fist, while Henry fell back and just stared at him.

“Wow, thanks.” Steve said

Johnathan and Nancy managed to slip in the forest unnoticed by the Bowers gang and grabbed branches as weapons. 

Henry got back up onto his feet, with the other three helping him back up.

Meanwhile, Steve, Emma, Nancy, and Johnathan stood there, ready to take them on.

“You forgot I had a blowtorch?” Patrick chuckled, “You fucking idiots -”

But as soon as he set the flame ablaze, it pointed back at him, and not the others.

Emma’s nose was now running, and the party as well as the Bowers gang noticed the 007 across her forearm as she set the flames on the Bowers gang and destroyed the match and blowtorch.

The Bowers gang rolled around to douse the flames, only to have Nancy and Johnathan hit them with logs while Steve and Emma kicked them.

Patrick, Victor, and Belch fled in fear, and Henry laid on the ground with ashes all over his body, who had gotten way more burnt compared to the rest of them.

“Is he...dead?” Emma whispered

“If he’s been hurting people including Mike, Richie, and all their other friends, I hope to god he is.” said Steve

“The other three, they’ve gotten away.” said Nancy

Johnathan and Steve ran to see if the other three were still running, but the rest of Henry’s gang was well out of sight.

“Come on, let’s contact the sheriff's office.” Johnathan insisted

After returning to the sight, Henry’s body was long gone.

While other officers searched the area for clues, they managed to find the wigs Patrick and Victor threw to the side.

“Are you sure it was them?” an officer from Derry asked suspiciously 

“Yes, we’re positive!” said Nancy

“Then how come the only evidence are the wigs?”

“Try tracing for DNA, something!” Nancy suggested

“Whoops, we forgot our equipment.” the officer responded sluggishly, “Because we’re from Derry, it’s not our job to trace that stuff since it’s in Hawkins and not our hometown is Derry.”

“What?! That makes no sense!!” Johnathan said angrily

“Look kid, we’ll get back to you and mention this to the Hawkins department when we get back.”

**Later that night**

Nancy spent the night at Emma’s house, both getting their minds off of it by mentioning it to Eleven, Lucy, and Emma’s mother, as well as watching a film and putting on nail polish to get their mind off of what happened that afternoon

When it was time to go to sleep, Nancy couldn’t help but stare up at the ceiling. 

“The blonde guy,” said Nancy, “Said something about Billy and my mom?”

“There’s no way.” said Emma

“I don’t know,” Nancy responded, “I don’t know why that’s on my mind. Like I hope it’s not true with Billy and my mom. I wouldn’t know who to trust anymore.”

“Even if it was,” said Ems, “You have your boyfriend Johnathan, me, and Steve of course.”

Nancy smiled

“You are right. You guys are the best.”

**Meanwhile**

As Steve and Johnathan were at Johnathan’s, they also happened to tell Joyce and Will about their experience.

“I am so glad you boys are safe!” said Joyce, “Don’t get yourselves in trouble with the wrong people like that again!”

“You believe us?” said Steve

“Of course!!” said Joyce, “I knew those boys were trouble as soon as I saw their faces in the newspaper two years ago, compared to the other kids in Derry who went missing. I must admit, Butch Bowers looked almost as scary as his own son.”

“I can’t believe the police wouldn’t trace the DNA! How fucking petty of them.” Johnathan huffed

“Language.” Joyce and Will said at the same time

Johnathan looked down, still angry that the police were not believing their story. And worried Bowers might go after them, the losers, party, or anyone else for that matter.

“Bowers mentioned something about a thing that went after the kids.” said Steve, “Will, have you noticed anything unusual?”

“Not recently.” Will replied

“Or anytime!”

“Well, last year I had a violent seizure.” said Will, “I woke up and heard voices, then some man with a suit and a bag over his head appeared in front of me, then vanished, but I feel like It or whoever he was was still there, because that’s when I had my seizure.”

“What about the other ones in your group and Bill/Richie’s group?” asked Johnathan, “Have they seen anything?”

“I don’t know,” Will responded, “I’m not even sure if it’s the same thing. You can ask them though.”

Steve and Johnathan then looked at each other.

~

Next Chapter: To Be Continued

[surflove808]

Fan Wars:  A New Hope.  Damnit.

I sure do hope you like reading lots of words!!

Here's the remix (Edited.  Longer.  Angrier.  Yay!):  I’m about to get all fire and brimstone up in here.  I apologize in advance.

Regarding my blog post re:  The Joke Debacle, most everyone has been so thoughtful, mature, kind and open minded about the discussion matter, even if they didn’t necessarily agree with me.  So that right there, shows me that it’s possible for all of us to be more understanding with each other regardless of our ships or faves or whatever.  And I’m an open-minded, open book, so even if you don’t agree with me, this is a safe place to vent concerns or frustrations with what I say.  We can all respectfully disagree, meet in the middle or go just back to our own corners.  Whatever.  

I'd like to encourage those of you who are taking your frustrations out on anyone who agrees with points made in my article (on Twitter or wherever) to come speak directly to me if you have an issue. I wrote it, after all.  My blog is helpfully linked right there in the article.  I don't bite. And for those of you who aren't overly familiar with what's going on, please check out the many, many comments attached to my actual blog post, and you will be able to see that there are far more people that are fed up with these bad apples, than there are bad apples.  I hope.  And if there are apples that don’t feel like they’re being given a fair shake, I’d like to hear from those apples too.

When I posted my angry rant last week, I didn’t expect it to gain so much traction.  But it did…and it showed me I wasn’t alone, and that there are a lot of fed up fans out there, and justifiably so, who are looking for an end to this ridiculous inner-fandom civil war.  I'm relatively new to Tumblr. I wasn't expecting to become the unofficial mouthpiece for this issue.  

I was approached by movietvtechgeeks.com asking if they could use my blog post in an article about the cyberbullying that’s happening in this fandom, so I said “Sure!”  I’m honored that someone would want to print my rambling.  But of course, it’s also opened up the floor on Twitter, yet again, for certain people to deliberately misconstrue the content and twist it to suit their own agenda in the comment sections.  What they fail to realize is…they’re only proving why we needed this article in the first place.  So, joke’s on them!!  However…. now I feel obligated to come on here and clarify my intent and that’s friggin irritating.

Here is the article if you want to take a looksee:  https://twitter.com/movietvtechgeek/status/927578926397952000

I NEED TO MAKE A FEW THINGS CRYSTAL CLEAR (apparently):

1.  I don’t have a ship.  I don’t dislike shippers.  (Ship away!  I just dislike pushy people with no sense of boundaries)  So please do not misconstrue anything I say as promoting or denigrating *a* ship. You do you.  Let me do me.  Well, that sounded vaguely dirty… you know what I mean.  I’m just gonna ship me with myself now.  Nobody can love me quite like me.  

2.  I don’t stan an actor, and I don’t think that because someone likes “another” actor (whomever that might be) more, that it’s a direct affront to me or them.  I tag all these "relevant to the post” actors because I think they’re all relevant to the success of this show, and sadly….also to this juvenile ridiculousness that seems to be brewing between fan factions.  

But, if I’m being honest?  Full disclosure:  I do have a favorite!  Jensen. Heyyyoooo!  I think he’s an incredibly talented actor IN MY OPINION, and I like his extraordinarily expressive face. See?  Simple as that.  Is that a problem?  And do you feel better now that it’s out in the open? 

We can all have opinions, and favorites without “throwing feces like howler monkeys” to quote a certain dickhead angel.  And as far as personalities and talent go?  They’re all amazing, and they all belong, IN MY OPINION.  The main cast, the supporting cast, new castmates, former castmates…. they all just…gel.  You know?  It’s some kind of voodoo magic.  And they’re by all accounts, really decent people doing good things out there in the world.  Without any one of them, it wouldn’t be the show we all know and love.  And if you don’t love the SHOW, well….I guess fucking go watch something else?  Right??  

Listen....Unless you’re tied to a chair Clockwork Orange-style, and being force fed this show by some evil, covert government agency… you DO have other choices.

3.  I sucked it up and joined Twitter because there seems to be an attack dog, hive-mind situation happening that seems hell bent on cowing people into submission.  That shit doesn’t fly with me.  And if I’m on there and see bullying, damaging misinformation or harassment… I’m going to get in the fray.  But I’m going to TRY to do it with honesty, integrity and a sense of humor.  I want to sit at the adults table on Turkey Day.  Not at the kids table with Weird Uncle Augustus.  Know what I mean?  Don’t be that guy.

AND ONCE MORE FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK:   To be clear - I’m not speaking to ONE specific group of people.  However, if you look into the mirror I’m holding up and see your own reflection?  I’m probably talking to you.

4.  I’m not going to choose a “side”.  I choose the show, it’s actors, crew, writers, etc, collectively.   Because they all work their asses off, both on and off the set to give us fans so much more than just entertainment.  

5.  If someone wanted to hold a mirror up to this fandom right now, via a juicy documentary on the ship wars, fighting factions, undermining, conspiracy theories, revenge tactics, harassment campaigns, etc…. I think its safe to say, we’re all gonna be pretty fucking embarrassed.  Let’s hope that never happens.  I’m cringing just thinking about it.  But we deserve it, if we keep on with this petty bullshit, ya know? 6.  My blog post was not about for J2 "stans” or about Misha “stans”, for gods sake people. This post was about how splinter groups (for lack of a better term) were being damaging and disruptive (As they do.) and how it’s bad for EVERYONE when we let warring factions steamroll over everyone else, AND each other. This post was a direct response to the organized and brutally efficient Twitter campaign that somehow found its way into the laps of a handful of online news sites in an effort to publicize an off-color joke in order to take advantage of the current climate in the entertainment industry and start a viral witch hunt.  *I just ran out of breath.  Time for a James Brown pause*

7.  My post was also aimed at the Twitter spamming campaigns that Shatner and Pellegrino, as well as J2 had to put up with in the past few weeks.  And don't feed us that horsehit about them bullying the poor fans that spoke their minds. NO.  You collectively went on, and started shit, kept coming at them, and they defended themselves.  And rather maturely, considering.  It’s about groups of people that have gotten so wrapped up and out of control, that they’re poisoning this fan family.  I genuinely feel concerned that some folks are confusing reality with fiction, here.

8.  If you look back farther on my Tumblr page (?) to the good ol days of last Thursday (?) - particularly the Silent Majority post - that post is not in reference to any fan or any actor, specifically.  It’s in reference to the majority of fans who want to do the right thing, WANT to help out, WANT to just enjoy the damn show without all this drama and hate.  But because they’re quiet, and they’re not able to speak their minds without fear of retribution…. they’re vastly under-represented.  And so, the assholes of the fandom run amok unchallenged. THAT’S the majority I’m speaking of.   9.  I abhor anyone that lurks around on social media looking for people to mess with. So, imagine my surprise and disappointment that now I’M that person, because of this fucking shit!!  I’m only getting after people who are picking on others, but still… lurking, arguing.  Utter waste of valuable time.  Yours and mine.

Saturday night I apparently pissed off the leader of one of the SPN gangs (what do you call them??)  when I called her out on her behavior and was ominously told:  “Wanna see what happens when I tell my followers what to think and do”.  To which I responded “I already have.  And it’s deplorable”  And then offered to provide her with my name, # and home address.  She didn’t want it.  I don’t know why.  I thought it was funny!  I NEVER get hate mail... and I was looking forward to some postcards.  I’m old school that way.  Don’t hate tweet me.  Send me a hate postcard featuring something cool from your state.

Jokes aside....that’s the kind of crap that mobilized me in the first place.  

I tried to have a reasonable conversation with this individual and even asked if she wanted to take it offline and talk.  I followed her lead, conversationally, did snark back when required...but just when I thought we were going to have a reasonable discussion, she pulled the rug out.  I tried.  If you’re reading this and you feel misrepresented, or misunderstood, or you’re trying to misrepresent our conversation - the door is still open if you want to talk.  But I’m not going to tolerate your bullshit, and neither should anyone else.

Who ARE these people?  And why is this happening?  That’s my question.

10.  I'm not here to listen to arguments that a 6-year old might find compelling in a court of law, such as:  Well, Jensen told that joke a year ago, or Misha said thisthatandtheotherthing back in the day...so why are you only talking about Jareds joke?  

Well...because this is not a tit-for-tat thing.  I'm talking about the issue that is relevant RIGHT NOW.  And this is far from a "blame it on Jared" thing.  I feel awful for the guy.  For both of them for even being looped into this insanity.  The intent of my blog post was to address very current events that have been demonstrative of the current, toxic climate brewing in the SPN fandom.  I’m NOT here to write the Unabridged History of SPN Actors and Their Fondness for Off-Color Jokes.  

11.  If you're all wound up and offended by what I wrote?  It's probably because I wrote this blog post not for you, but about you.  OR, you've not been provided with context, content or clarity, and you got swept up in this manufactured hysteria and reacted.  OR, you think I’m a total asshole, and that’s ok.  I get it!  And I understand how my post could make some of you defensive and prickly.  But hey, as the saying goes... don't start none, won't BE none.  On the flip side, as someone eloquently stated (ahem, CarolHansson) "It's ok to be offended....it's also ok to not be offended"

12.  I am not a rape apologist.  And neither are the actors.  And to even insinuate that any of us, by extension of supporting Jared or Jensen in this situation, are pro "rape culture", is appropriating a term and using it so irresponsibly that you're negating the real suffering of sexual abuse survivors.  The more you trivialize it, the more you take away its power. Stop using manufactured concern for survivors as your jumping-off point for harassment, and START asking yourself what's really motivating you to use that argument as an excuse for your behavior. BTW,  #Metoo, and you sure as hell don't represent ME.

If you want to see a record of this casts achievements for mental health awareness, LGBTQ rights, anti-bullying and womens issues, to name a few - it's a simple Google search away.  That's on your time.  Not mine.  Again....not here to write their autobiography.  This piece is an opinion piece.  I try to be balanced, but that’s as far as it goes.  I'm not CNN.  

13.  MISHA:  Misha was not mentioned in my post because Misha was not under fire last week or the week before over this stupid bullshit.  If I SEE that happening, I’ll write about THAT.  But HE was not the focus of this mess.  So I left HIM out of it.  Does that make sense?  And also?  I'm not here to equally represent all actors at all times.  That's not how this works in the context of the subject matter at hand.  If you want to see more adequate representation for your favorite actor  - write your own op ed. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy.  

And Misha as well as J2, are probably more than a little appalled that some of their biggest fans (?) are committing to some shady behavior in their honor and in their names.  Just a guess.  They’re good guys and this is probably not sanctioned behavior.  If you think it is?  Show me the receipts.  Let’s do this honestly, using facts.  Not conjecture.

14.  No, I do not excuse anyone's behavior because of their physical attractiveness.  Neither do most people.  I am not a child (Thank you, Uma Thurman), and I don't rationalize like a child.

15.  No, I am not doing this to seek approval from the actors, and neither is anyone else with the #istandwithJ2 hashtag.  As previously stated, this is an equal and opposite reaction to the bullshit that brought us all here today.  You’re grasping at straws at this point, if that’s the argument you’re going with.  Speaking on my own behalf, I have nothing to gain here, except some new Tumblr friends with a side of troll.

16.  To reiterate on previous posts - I’m hoping that all of us will collectively start sticking up for each other when we see someone harassing a fellow fan online. Even if you don’t want to comment….maybe give the person being flamed those little heart thingys (likes?).  Direct message them if liking their post doesn’t feel safe.  Show them your support in some way, so that they don’t feel alone and so that they don’t feel quite so vulnerable to attacks from online bullies.   We Have Got To Start Backing Up People who are just trying to express their opinions respectfully and are being slammed with responses that are belligerent, demeaning, threatening, obnoxious, etc.  Otherwise - these jerks will just keep steamrolling right over the more gentle viewers out there.  And a lot of them, are just kids.  And this goes both ways.  It has to, in order to be effective.

If you see something - say something.  That’s my 2 cents anyway.

The world’s going to Hell in a handbasket, 26 innocent people were gunned down yesterday in a place they held sacred and felt safe in, and it just keeps happening.

Mother Nature has decided she’s sick of our shit and has been upending thousands of lives.  There are actual sexual predators in some of our pasts and sadly, in some of our futures.  And this “joke” has no relevancy or bearing on that sad fact.

Women, people of color, LGBTQ people, economically fragile people, physically fragile people, etc...are seeing their protections, rights and livelihoods eroded away in an alarmingly short period of time, and the list goes on and on… and THIS is what we’re dedicating our mental and emotional resources to?

This show is supposed to be an escape from reality, guys.  Not actual reality.

Why are we harassing the actors and fellow fans of a television show that brought us all together in the first place?  This is entertainment, people.  I know how important this show is to all of us.  And I know how impactful the message of this show has been.  And I know that without this show, some of us might not be here today.  We are some passionate sumbitches.  I GET THAT.  

The question still remains.... what in the actual fuck are we really fighting for and about, here?  If someone can quantify and explain that to me in a way that makes sense, I’m all ears. 

Has it really come to:  “Maybe we need to devise a more sophisticated tagging situation so that people don’t keep dipping their chocolate in other peoples peanut butter.”  I don’t know.  But this is Nth level ridiculousness, and we need to figure it out before it gets even worse.

For now, I’m going to get back to enjoying this show for what it is, and putting my beautiful brain back to work on more important matters.  I’ve spent a week in this muck, and it’s been... enlightening.  I’ll say that.

And even though I don’t agree with some of you - I can see by the CSI-level attention to detail that a lot of us have applied to all things SPN... that we could actually be mobilized into an almost unstoppable force for real good and real change.  If we wanted that.  

We could probably figure out who ordered JFK’s assassination.  Figure out where Jimmy Hoffa’s buried.  Solve the mysteries of the pyramids.... help reunite missing kids with their families...Get Trump impeached... ahem.  You get it.

Or we could just keep wasting our pent-up aggression on other fans, and the actors of our favorite show.  Because that’s easy.  Choices.  

But wait!  There’s more!  Because I keep getting valid messages and concerns, this ridiculously long piece just got longer.  

Posting these blogs has opened the door to a lot of private communication from both sides of the fence in the fandom, and I'm going to include some of my recent responses to an SPN fan who felt that her group of fans were not getting a fair shake and felt my blog targeted them.  We had a long discussion and she was very cool and had a lot of valid concerns and examples of other bad fan behavior dating wayyyy back, so I wanted to add this in.

I'm just going to paraphrase my own replies and print them here, so that people who may feel misrepresented or angry can see that, there are other ways to discuss these issues and for everyone to see that there's a better way than Twitter Wars.

(Paraphrased conversation subject matter in italics)

What's amazing is that J2 fans AND Misha fans have private messaged me with the exact same concerns.  And you have one very important thing in common:  You ALL feel victimized.  And you have been.   Know why?  It's because you've been victimizing each other.

(Slaps own face.  HARD.)  Not because of her.  But because of this whole enchilada.

If both groups are concerned about the same issues and both want the harassment to stop, whyyyy are you still at each others throats?

Well, I think it's because good people are capable of behaving very badly, especially online.  And all they’re doing is making themselves look ridiculous.  And they do not merit support.

A lot of people have been using me as a mediator, or prism, so to speak, with regards to this issue.  But you don't need me, when you all essentially want the same damn thing.

It's time to stop participating.  All you have to do is take a step back and say to yourself (or others if you’re feeling up to it) I'm not going to support harassment, hate or damaging misinformation.  And you can do that by unfollowing abusive accounts, by not "liking" or reblogging abusive content...and/or by not contributing to it yourself.  And if enough of us did that, BOOM, on our way to a solved problem.

These are only a few suggestions.  There's no cure or quick fix for this.  

Only alternatives to current behaviors.

And I know there's a lot of bad blood between these groups as evidenced by the mountains of grievances I've been getting.  Can’t un-say or undo any of it.  But we can stop doing it going forward, can’t we?

As long as people want to keep concentrating on past transgressions and dwelling on past arguments, no one can move on.  

And continuing to keep score with hopes to "win" something on here isn’t working either.  I’ve got bad news:  There's no "winning" here.  No grand prize.  Just more of the same bullshit.  And if you’re happy to sit in this pile of crap and continue to marinate?  That’s your prerogative.  By “your” I mean WHOMEVER fits the bill.

It's not my responsibility to make you play nice with each other.  Or mediate your arguments.  Though, it sounds like mediation is exactly what ya'll might need.  I'm just here, publicly stating how this all looks to me: Like a never-ending playground slapfight.

I think that there will always be "haters".  That's the nature of fandom, and life in general.  But if we stop promoting that kind of behavior with our support, and if these individuals have to lurk in the back channels, as opposed to being allowed to thrive and build fiefdoms all over social media.  That sounds like a good compromise to me.

And if you have a lot to express on this matter from your own perspective, there are better alternatives to spamming people on Twitter.  For example... 

Write a blog!  If you’d like to provide an objective viewpoint, and also defend your stance but you’re afraid people will see that you support actor A, B, or C and automatically discount what you have to say?  Start a side blog.  Compile a list of wrongs that you’ve seen committed by both sides and be the mirror, and show people what they’ve become.

Create your own, blank slate and start fresh.

There, now I can drop the mic.  

[explodingcrenelation]

I've never seen this discussed, but I was thinking about how the Winter Soldier is a legend and a ghost, always concealed. Yet they sent him after the Starks unmasked. I guess they knew Howard would recognize him and they wanted that, but it still seems a weird thing to do. With Steve it's obvious, they knew it gave WS the advantage because Cap didn't want to kill him, but the Starks hardly seemed a threat. Sure it was psychological, but what was the point if they die fast? Got meta?

Okay, so, I really need to organize my meta. Because I swear I’ve read at least one meta post that talks about the mask and the inconsistency of its use throughout the movies. But I have almost forty pages of meta on my blog and I can’t seem to find it. I may not have reblogged it, in which case I fear it’s lost to the depths of Tumblr. (Can anyone help with this?)

For lack of resources to point you to, anon, let me ramble a bit and see if anything comes out of it.

From a storytelling standpoint, the mask is primarily for us, the viewers, so that we can have a dramatic identity reveal in Winter Soldier.

Or, really, I should say the mask is primarily for Steve because I think pretty much everyone in the audience knew the Winter Soldier was Bucky all along. Losing the mask simply confirmed it. However, the audience wants to see Steve have the revelation for himself, the moment of recognition. (And to this day that moment remains one of my favorite scenes in the entirety of the MCU. It was beautifully staged, and perfectly acted. Chris Evans emoted so much fear/hope/disbelief in one whispered, “Bucky?” and then Sebastian Stan contrasted that painfully with his flat reply, “Who the hell is Bucky?” I could go on about that exchange for ages.)After that, the mask isn’t really needed. It served its purpose for the dramatic reveal and the story kind of… forgets it. 

Wouldn’t it have been great to have Steve in Civil War realize, “Oh! That guy who bombed the UN? He isn’t wearing a mask and Bucky definitely knew to wear a mask to hide his identity when he was dismantling governments and destroying world order, so that’s probably not him.” 

Give your old pal some credit, Steve. Sheesh. He was a professional sniper and knew how to be sneaky even before Hydra caught him. There’s a reason you haven’t been able to find him for the last two years. 

But I digress. 

Ostensibly the reason Bucky doesn’t have the mask for Civil War is again for the sake of storytelling. We need Howard to recognize him and say his name and for the Winter Soldier to look straight into the security feed so there’s no doubt whatsoever that James Buchanan Barnes, Steve Rogers’ best friend, killed Tony’s parents. That makes it possible for Tony to react immediately, without having to pause to question whether or not it’s actually Bucky (it thus prevents Tony from thinking things through and reacting with a clearer head). It serves the heat of the storytelling more than it serves a common sense, fully developed backstory for the use of the mask. 

I mean, we could say that Howard’s death is the inciting incident that makes the mask necessary. The Winter Soldier was both recognized and caught on camera on the night of December 16, 1991. It was apparently a big enough deal that detailed Hydra records led Zemo to seek out that specific tape, sight unseen, knowing without a doubt the rift it would cause between Steve and Tony. 

I wonder how much trouble the Winter Soldier’s handlers had to go through to get that security tape into their hands? (Because please imagine them freaking out about Peggy Carter finding out Bucky was still alive and a brainwashed captive of Hydra. She may have been getting on in years, but I have no doubt Hydra operatives were still actively terrified of her. She was there when Steve vowed revenge for Bucky. Steve died to avenge Bucky. There’s no way she wouldn’t take it personally if she found out Bucky was still alive. Same goes for the rest of the Howling Commandos.)

That being said, it seems kind of silly for Hydra to make that realization so late into the game. Even petty thieves know well enough to obscure their identities. 

So, we could say Howard’s death is the inciting incident, but it doesn’t make much sense if it was. Because that leaves about forty-odd years where the Winter Soldier was operating without a mask. And the chance he’d be recognized by former friends and family was a lot higher earlier on in his “career.”

At one point in the past—there’s no way to know if it was before or after Howard’s death—the Winter Soldier was photographed with his mask on. In Winter Solider, computer-incarnated Zola shuffles through a series of historical images, including this one. 

It’s hard to tell for sure, but the Winter Soldier seems to be wearing the mask here. Of course, the irony is that the arm and the star make him 100% identifiable. The difference being the arm identifies him as a weapon and an agent of Hydra, not as a person with a name and a history of his own. It doesn’t particularly matter if anyone sees the arm and, in fact, adds to the chilling mythos of the ghost story. Regular men don’t have metal arms. Monsters without faces have metal arms.

The mask obscures Bucky’s identity and it dehumanizes him. (It’s also an inverse of Captain America’s helmet, which I think is simply brilliant costuming.) Not only does it serve a practical purpose in keeping anyone from knowing who he is, it furthers Hydra’s subtle fear tactics by making the arm the Winter Solider’s identifying mark. Hydra had every reason to want to use the mask from the very beginning. 

If we try to make sense of the use of the mask in the context of the marvel universe, without breaking the fourth wall, and setting aside its presence (or lack thereof) as an obvious function of targeted storytelling goals, I think we’re only left with two options: Either Hydra deliberately sent the Winter Soldier after the Starks without a mask, or Bucky took the mask off himself. 

Bucky’s not really giving us any clues here, so…

Reasons Hydra might want to unmask the Winter Soldier, knowing he’d be recognized: 1.) To throw Howard off, just in case he was armed. The man built weapons for a living. It’s not unreasonable to assume he might be armed with something that could kill a super soldier. But if that super soldier was a former friend and ally? He might be less likely to defend himself and less likely to attack, thus giving the Winter Soldier room to maneuver. 2.) Sheer pettiness. Wanting to gloat. Letting Howard know with his dying breath that Hydra was still alive and well and that his obsessive work on duplicating the super soldier serum wasn’t going to create another Captain America, but something much worse. 

Reasons Bucky might have taken the mask off: Depending on how long he was out of cryo, his memories could have been coming back. Some part of him could have remembered the name of his target and he might have wanted to be identified—either to be saved or punished. But the programming was still enough in control that he couldn’t stop himself from completing the mission. 

Those are my best guesses, at least. I doubt Marvel’s creative team has given it much thought (though I would be delighted to be proven wrong in subsequent films). Does anyone out there remember any other meta posts about Bucky’s mask? Or have anything more to contribute for this anon? Please reply or reblog with your own thoughts/theories/headcanons! :)

[survivormarmoreal]

Episode #6: "My brain does not math at this hour. Stay tuned." - Sharky

I'm so sad. Everything worked out just like we thought it would but it's still not what I wanted. Charlie went home and he was actually a really good ally. I feel like I maybe could have done more to try and save him but then I would have lost other allies.

OKAY. LET'S. DISH. This swap also worked out really freakin well for me. My #1 Brian is still with me by my side. I was reunited with Dennis who is part of Four of a Kind, plus he is a challenge BEAST. Nick actually thinks I voted to save him which is not the case but made me looks like such a good ally to him, so I had to do 0 damage control. And I'm finally on a tribe with Matt who I've been wanting to work with. This is actually the best case scenario.

Welp. I knew something was happening but a swap wasnt it. Lucky i talked to Bryce earlier so he has my back. We also have Keaton and Marie but we have to see where their heads at. Nate is talking to me and right now i really like his vibe. Annebelle i havent had a chance to but wasnt able to make it so idk if they’ll be here. Hopefully we can win immunity tonight.

So we swapped. Again. AND I AM THE ONLY FUCKING OG MADIGAN ON MY TRIBE. THIS IS SOME BS. James the lil'bitch had to fucking quit over a fucking flash game so we could have MERGED but NO! I see how it is. At least I have Dennis and Brian (who i would literally DIE for) and nicole as well! Sharky is an FB ORG legend so im looking forward to getting to know him. Nick already seems dry asf so yay? Like I think I can blend in quickly with this tribe, but I am still nervous about what would happen if we merge. IDK if the FBers (its weird to me how im considered one now LOL) will team up or whether we will wither and die and I have to pull out my idol (yah i still have some sanity!) WOO TIME TO CRY AT ENDURANCE

ok well we swapped and im kind of loving it but not. like i love that maynor and nathan are here. but so is kirby! so! i miss dennis and brian seems like a legend so i wanted to play with him but oh well maybe merge if i survive! its awk this live challenge bc marie prob wont be doing it like even during the good times for her timezone KJHFADKSJDF. but! ugh dennis is gonna slay this so sad i have a good sleep schedule yikes. its fun that nicole is on the other tribe hopefully that evens it out for us having marie. annabelle hasnt spoken to me yet either so. hmmm.... maynor wants to work with me so thats GREAT love him wooh!!!

Okay we are actually working really well as a tribe on this challenge. No shade to my previous tribes but I haven't seen this much teamwork in a challenge yet this season. Feels good.

This swap was really good for me i think. And I had 2 swaps today and I was going crazy. I have now Bryce and Keaton both wanting to work with me which is good because now we atleast can make it a tie if the others dont want to work with us. I really like Nate so Im going to try and see where he’s heads at. Marie doesnt talk much and is offline. And starting to talk to Anna. I dont think we are going to win this immunity.

Matt is great. End of story.

3:51 am. Dennis, Matt, and I have really stayed up to pull this challenge together. And we are so close. This would give Brian and I a much needed break from tribal council and considering I can see myself working with all of these players I'd rather us win so I can have as many options as possible when we merge. I just need to stay up for another hour or so to get this done. Matt and Dennis have already stayed up all night to get it done. Also though in the back of my mind I'm clocking how Dennis works REALLY hard at these challenges...maybe too hard. And now I'm rambling...because it is now 3:54 am.

4:21 am. We think we have won. Unsure. My brain does not math at this hour. Stay tuned.

SO WE WON IMMUNITY WOOOO! Thank god, live tribals for some reason would make me really nervous so i am happy to be safe! hopefully the merge is soon as well, would love to get there and know i made jury (something which doesn't happen too me that often ngl) Sharky and I really hit it off last night, and i know this cause we established that Betty white is very dom but also caring about her subs. so thats a sentence you just read. If feel like even if I went to tribal, im likeable enough to make into into the majority alliance that could spring up, so I am happy with how I am playing tbh. Will it make me a threat further down the line? probs but i'll deal with that later

Can I just say that the laptop Discord is way better than mobile Discord. But catch me still using mobile discord all the time. Anyways.... It looks like the target might be Marie for tribal. TBH I really hope this tribal goes smoothly and everyone just votes for Marie. She was one and didn't help out in the challenge, as far as I could tell. Haven't seen the ones after I deadass fell asleep on my phone. Bryce and Keaton have my back so that's all that matter. Nate I have to keep an eye on because he threw my name with Marie because he didn't talk to me. (He was telling Keaton this.) I was like bruh why you lying. We literally talked for a couple of hrs after the swap before you went to bed. I'll update if there is any more spicyness. but It sucks though. Now only 2 people to have not gone to tribal is Dennis and Nicole.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk_Ur9d_wY8&feature=youtu.be

only audio this time. Like switching it up hehe

everything is so quiet i think im going home which is super sad bc the game is pretty fun and i really wanted to work with maynor dennis and nathan somemore but oh well!!! am i a meninist? also i stan annabelle again she like kind of doesnt talk to me but when she does shes a legend league goddess. marie is so inactive that im going to vote her but i wish keaton left instead!

Hello! I am still safe and probably will remain so until merge, so.....this is fun! Lots of fun! Every time I try to contribute to a challenge I wake up and we've already won or finished it. I...is this the work ethic of Discord games? If so, I love being carried like this. Anyways, hoping that anyone who was cordial to me on my last tribe doesn't get the boot. I'm figuring Maria might go just because she has been so inactive (except that one time Keaton called her inact in the chat and she came on like AND WHAT ABOUT IT???). So anyways that's my thoughts on that. See ya at merge (?) or maybe we are gonna have another round before that.

Today is the day i go to my first tribal. Its kinda nerve wracking but also not because everyone seems to be unified to vote out Marie tonight. Its barely 11:22 am so anything can happy until 5 pm. Im just hoping nothing crazy is happening.

Okay so this day off has been really great for me. Especially since we are still expecting a merge. And we all know once merge hits the party don't stop. However, I'm really interested to see what happens with this vote. Maynor is all alone but I need him to make the merge. Aside from Brian he is my best ally. Not to mention Nathan and Annabelle want to work with me. If they go I won't be heartbroken but I could use the allies. Then there is Bryce and Marie. I have no relationship with them but in a merge situation I think Brian could pull them into something. So I guess best case scenario Keaton goes. But also as long as it's not Maynor I would have to readjust my strategy.

OK, so it's been a couple of days!  I said I'd do confessionals daily but it just doesn't work with how little is going on in the game on the winning tribe!  I know that Nicole approached Sharky for some alliance with her and Dennis, but I just... 2 people doesn't make the numbers on the tribe and Sharky will be more loyal to me as opposed to them!

I guess I didn't really talk much about the swap either because it did just happen.  Basically I got majority of my OG tribe (Nicole, Dennis, Sharky, and myself), but I also got Matt and Nick.  I ADORE Matt and so I plan on working with him in the long run of this game if possible, and I'd love to make Nick the first boot from this tribe hehe... he needs to go before he gets his hands on any more items.  He thinks Sharky was the vote against Charlie and not me, so maybe Sharky snapped, but I genuinely don't care at the moment because Nick wouldn't feed me any information like he would feed Sharky since I know Sharky's playing a good social game.  I like Nicole and Dennis but I just don't care about longterm plans with either of them.  Ideally, I'd love my endgame to be me, Sharky, Marie, Bryce, Matt, and Nathan so that I sit perfectly in the middle of people I want to work with, but I don't know if that's their ideal plans with me, soooo!! I love dis game, and I'm really glad I got this day break after my team carried my ass because I just needed some quiet time…

I like this tribe because we won the challenge.. nothing has really happened besides me talking to some people and making some stronger connections... we all see a merge being what comes next and i cant wait for it to happen.

Idk I think this tribal will go ok but people haven’t really been talking to me a whole lot on this swap so hopefully no ones lying to me and I’m getting fucked over tonight we’ll see I guess fingers crossed!!

We swapped and lost immunity and I have no idea what's happening once again. I'm gonna vote Keaton again because of his behavior and hopefully I'm not the one being voted out ugh

Marie is voted out 5-1.

[james-vi-stan-blog]

to your knowledge, did King James ever abuse George in some way? I’ve seen people throw that word around

tw abuse, child abuse, coercion, violence against animals and stuff

It depends on what you mean by abuse. If you consider a severely power-differentiated relationship abuse, then the whole thing is abusive, but also every interpersonal relationship in the 17th century is abusive.

I don’t know of any reported instance of James hitting George, nor of overt sexual coercion (though we know very little about their bedroom life, such as it is possible for historians to argue that they never had sex, although this is a minority view now). James was VERY into marrying off his courtiers, including his favorites, and when George married Katherine, while James still expected George to be constantly at his side, he encouraged them to go at it and make babies. Most of James’s favorites seem to have transitioned out of sleeping with him, and he remained very affectionate with them. Also, remember how James called Carr not wanting to sleep with him “a mere unkindness”? He was hurt, and I read those words as being whiny and guilt trip-y, but it’s not like he was demanding constant service. (Also, many historians think George was probably not having sex with James towards the end of James’s reign simply because James was very sick. Yet this is the period of James’s most intensely romantic letters.)

James, we should remember, hated violence (at least between humans) and had trauma over being shouted at. This doesn’t mean he would never perpetuate it. He did have a temper (nothing like Henry VIII levels though). He led armies, personally oversaw torture, sentenced people to brutal death, etc. — although in this period these would be seen as just actions that a moral king should do, protecting his people against criminals and outlaws. James was popularly criticized for being too soft.

There is an oft-repeated story about him trying to strike a teenage Henry Frederick with his cane during a hunt. This would have been considered acceptable discipline for a father to mete on his son, if “justified” by bad behavior. However, Henry Frederick simply rode off and most of the hunting party went with him, signaling that the prince was more popular than the king and James was not considered justified in this case. (Though, I heard this story told once where HENRY FREDERICK is the one who tried to hit JAMES.)

James and George did argue with raised voices, James publically snubbed George during problem periods of their relationship, but I don’t know that these would really be “abuse” rather than conflict. There is the aspect of the power differential, where George has to grovel and apologize to get James to forgive him, because James was the king. However, James very readily gave his forgiveness (and not just to George, he was generally very eager to forgive any of his friends or favorites for anything if they promised him their love).

Robert Carr DID yell at James, and the main thrust of James’s extremely long feelingsdump letter to him was that he felt hurt and betrayed that Carr wanted to “hold him by awe” (fear) “rather than by love”. So James felt Carr was controlling him by threats and angry outbursts, which James resented, saying that he would do anything for Carr for love, but if he felt he was being taken for granted and Carr was bullying him, that that love would swiftly turn to hate.

(Of course, we must remember that James was a divine right king, so we should be suspicious of his characterization of Carr’s behavior. When James is this massively entitled, such that he genuinely thinks it is a religious sin to resist his will, is he correctly perceiving this situation? Is he overreacting to a relatively modest drawing of boundaries by Carr? I’m inclined to think James genuinely felt betrayed and Carr really was yelling at him and scaring him, but we can’t fully trust James’s perspective.)

So, the short answer is, I don’t know of any instance between James and George that is unambiguously abuse, although of course their whole relationship is colored by power and manipulation. But I’m not a historian or biographer or anything. I’m just a James enjoyer, constantly learning new things, so there could have been an instance somewhere, I simply haven’t learned of it yet.

In the Mary & George trailer, there’s an instance of James wiping George’s face with blood, but this is not from violence against humans; this is a ritual of the deer hunt, where the leader of the hunt (James) marks his companions with the fresh blood of the kill. So this is an act of favor and weird homoerotic intimacy rather than violence towards George.

[james-vi-stan-blog]

a interviewer (for a magazine or something like that) asked Nicholas “does George genuinely have feelings for King James?” and his response was “first, their relationship is very transactional. I don't think he develops feelings until a few months, perhaps years, into it, but there ends up being this very sincere love between the two of them. While there was definitely something for George to gain, the love was very much real.”

I wanted to ask what’s your opinion on this? do you love/like the idea, do you hate/dislike it, or do not mind it! I personally like the idea because it makes it all the more interesting and maybe even heartbreaking. though I’ve seen a lot of mixed opinions about it a few being it’s not accurate because George never loved him (from what I remember though his feelings were a mystery so we don’t know if whether or not he loved him or if it was all just about power) or people thinking we’re “shipping” them even though their relationships is “grooming” and unhealthy. which I agree about the relationship between them being unhealthy but they still loved each other through the madness of things and James didn’t groom George. I have so much to say but I’ll explain them when I can! I just wanted to hear your thoughts:)

-✨

While I think that part of the allure and mystery of George Villiers is the deep unknowability of his true feelings (I've rambled on the mystery of George's sexual orientation before which may be of interest), if this relationship is gonna be dramatized, I would prefer a depiction where affection and even love exist alongside politics, greed, and manipulation, yeah. That's just more interesting, you know? When simple, earnest human needs and vulnerabilities are at play, that's way more engaging to me than pure realpolitik chess games. There's more stakes, more tragedy.

We don't know that George loved James, but the thing is we also don't know that George didn't love James. He understood James really well. He exerted himself very hard every single day for James. (He never got complacent like Robert Carr.) Was every single time that Buckingham had a breakdown and cried in public fake? Were his beautiful words, which showed the close degree of attention he paid to James's moods and preferences, all just evidence of his masterful manipulation? (If he was so good at faking it for the English king, why was he so bad at diplomacy elsewhere, and why did he cause offense everywhere he went?)

If it were up to me, I think the dream would be to craft a story where sexual enjoyment, sexual resentment, familial affection, romantic love, disgust, greed, coldness (even sociopathy), parasitism, mutualism, and gratitude all swirl ambiguously around this relationship.

And from James's side, not to depict him as purely sex-driven, but also not to depict him as totally naive in his pursuit of true love, but to entwine his quest for homosexual love with his intellectual ideals of kingship and generosity (idiosyncratic to say the least, yet in his arrogant mind, philosophically rigorous).

Most likely, in Mary & George, we'll get a "good guy" to "villain protagonist" take on George, and his feelings and actions will be explained to the viewer because he's a viewpoint character. Given that, I prefer the relationship to be depicted as including love. I would rather see the possibility of love in this situation embraced, than to have the more traditional take that such love would be impossible… grotesque… unnatural… hmm… why do all these words just smell like homophobia… But also, I don't want George Villiers defanged.

[james-vi-stan-blog]

I’m tired of people on Twitter calling King James a groomer like they’ve done research on his history🤦‍♀️

-✨

OK I have been holding myself back from fully saying everything I think about this. I already rambled about it (to you and once to someone else) but do you wanna hear my fully problematic opinion?

This reaction is homophobic and misogynist.

Because if THIS is the period drama that makes these people cry "groomer", if GEORGE VILLIERS the 21-year-old fully age of majority male social climber who wades into the Jacobean court and slugs it out for the top position is the person in history that's making them fret over unfree choice and power dynamics, what the fuck?

THIS is "grooming" and "csa"? THIS? While all around them in this period, you know what age the women—you know, the gender that literally completely loses an independent legal identity and has no rights and is literally referred to as part of a husband's chattels—are getting married off at? Do these people have anything to say about Henrietta Maria (15), Anne of Denmark (15), MARIANA OF AUSTRIA (14), or Mary Princess Royal (10/12)? How many period dramas have these people watched and smiled at the pretty ladies in pretty dresses, and then a young man wheedles his way into the bed of the king and THAT'S what needs discourse about?

"James was taking advantage of George's financial situation" WOMEN. HAD. NO. RIGHTS. Torture is accepted in the courts. The social structure is completely unequal all the way down and this is the understood as the will of God. There are no human rights. The Levellers (30 years from M&G) are going to be largely rejected as ridiculous. Margaret Cavendish is going to be known as "Mad Madge" (50 years from M&G) because she's a woman who has thoughts. John Locke's treatises aren't gonna be published until 70+ years from M&G. The Mansfield Judgment against slavery in England is 150+ years from M&G. And as far as the rights of minors go, R v Hopley was 245 years after M&G. (If you don't know that case don't look it up unless you want nightmares)

Yeah I know this is whataboutism but seriously. SERIOUSLY.

What kind of bizarre fucking fairytales have these people been consuming where the system of monarchy is a fun and friendly egaliatian social environment where there is no coercion and all relationships especially royal ones are certified unproblematic and 100% acceptable according to our modern standards? don't tell me i do actually know, ugh

"This relationship has coercive elements in it!" YEAH. YEAH, IT DOES. That is, we hope, one of the points of the show? The point of telling stories about relationships in the past? To examine how humans, who had emotional needs and hopes, coped under unfree oppressive conditions and were drawn into those same networks of exploitation and abuse? This weird and ugly story about a remarkable relationship and all the horrible people orbiting around it is such a fascinating case study about how real human feelings like affection, loneliness, kinship get refracted through the lens of politics and power, and the result is not pretty. But flattening it down into a tale of inhuman unfeeling Bad People would lose so much potential for exploring how bad and disgusting that SYSTEM is. If it's just Bad People Being Bad To Each Other For No Reason then the historical conditions are absolved and we can file this narrative away into a box that has nothing to do with us Good People and has nothing to say and nothing that could make us reflect about the past and future, and has no purpose other than spectacle and voyeurism and schadenfreude.

Guys, we're in a bad time here in 2024. And I cannot help but think that this kind of reckless leverage of "groomer" against specifically a gay relationship, whether intentionally or not, is part of the ongoing, intentional campaign by international regressive community to dilute the meaning of that word so that it can be deployed against real-life gay and trans people.

Even though I personally don't think it's accurate to say that James groomed George (Mary did if anything, but again, adult man who was not legally under her power), if someone wants to believe that, whatever, we're all interpeting history here. But using that word, in this particular moment, going after this particular show, reviving the bogeyman of the homosexual predator that those of us who are old enough remember being openly used against us and see it getting dusted off to be used again right now, is deeply suspect to me and I just…

Anyway name an unproblematic relationship from the period of coverture.

[james-vi-stan-blog]

do you think King James knew George was using him for power and money? or do you think King James knew about George’s financial situation and took it to his advantage? Do you think James actually loved George and George loved him or was it more than just “love”?

Sorry for the long questions

-✨

I speculated about this before, so that ramble might be of interest to you!

I don't know how I feel about the idea of "James taking advantage of George's financial situation" because... he's... he's the king. There's a ginormous power differential between James and everyone else in GB. There's a thousand people swarming all around him trying to get into favor and get lavish gifts and lucrative appointments. (James is known for being extravagantly generous, to the point of being financially illiterate.) In every single relationship James has ever had in his life, he gives favors in exchange for affection. Also - George is a man. A 21-year-old fully adult man. Unlike a woman, his routes of advancement aren't basically (a) get married or (b) be a mistress. George is not facing starvation if he can't seduce the king. (It's Mary who has very few other options in her life.) I think that if James was aware of George's finances, he probably relished being able to extravagantly reward and pamper him, which is part of just how James saw the role of king.

I do think that James truly loved George (he said so outright in his own words - this is not admitting to a sexual love, but love he certainly proclaimed; all the contemporary accounts speak of his affection; his letters are extremely effusive, here are examples). George's own feelings are very mysterious. He clearly knew exactly how to handle James, exactly how to behave and what to say to keep the king's affection. However, did he do this out of sincere love and familiarity, or was he calculating a persona for maximum effect? On the one hand, he easily slid into the position of Charles's favorite afterwards. On the other hand, he was an awful diplomat and constantly offending people.

The unknowability of George's feelings I think adds to his mystique. He's an unstable signifier and I think that's why he's had resonance down the ages. Usually he ends up with the villain treatment (and not without reason) but I'm interested to see what Mary & George does in the history of remembering Buckingham.

[james-vi-stan-blog]

why do I feel like the previous anon was a dig at me for asking questions about the kind of people James and George were😃I could be wrong though.

my only thing about why I’m hoping all of them in the show will show their flaws or how much of a bad person they can be is because I know it’ll be so much easier for people to understand or even sympathize with George simply because Nicholas is playing him. I’ve probably mentioned this before but I fully believe it has something to do with looks.

Nicholas is incredibly attractive so a lot of people feel more inclined or gravitate towards his character to feel sympathy, maybe defend, or ‘babygirl’ George even through problematic issues he’s had (that might be in the show but idk what they’ll include) but compared to Tony portraying James? I don’t think he’s going to get that same energy or thought process because his character might be criticized more simply because some people don’t find Tony/James attractive. I’ve seen this happen many times and it’s just odd people haven’t picked up on that.

I’m not saying people aren’t allowed to make up their own opinions about how they perceive the the characters or force my opinions onto others. I honestly can say that I feel sympathy for George and James (even Mary) but I think a lot of people aren’t going to realize how much looks would come into play when their formulating their opinions about the characters.

I’m sorry if I’m not making any sense, I have a hard time writing my thoughts! also I’m not trying to start anything so I hope this doesn’t come across as rude or anything😭

-✨

I don't think asking "good or bad" type questions is necessarily pointless… after all, people do have vices and virtues, and they can make good, bad, or downright evil decisions. I think we can even evaluate relative badness to some extent (like the 5th Earl of Bothwell, there's a phenomenally shitty person). Rather, it's a binary vision of good and bad guys that's toxic for the study of history. I think it's also limiting for media. If you (general you, not you, ✨) are going into Mary & George just looking to be entertained, there's no need to have several essays cited that George Villiers Is A Good Person™ Actually before you've even sat down. Not every story is meant to be didactical. What is about to unfold in front of you could be a villain's tale, some complex shade of tragedy, etc.

But to the main thrust of your ask, honestly… I too worry about this. The halo effect and lookism are well-documented phenomena (known and understood even in the period itself… I mean… why was short, stuttering, shy Baby Charles so invested in his iconography, but to depict himself as strong, masculine, handsome, and therefore virtuous and deserving to rule!!!) and also applies to media depictions of historical figures. It's totally a real thing that when a historical figure gets played by a popular actor, people will tend to be softer on that character, not even purely due to "beauty = goodness", but also because the pleasure of the visual spectacle inclines us to excuse what we're seeing. (Actually, even outside the appearance of the actors, people tend enormously to excuse the actions of a protagonist. It's just sort of an effect of the medium.)

That said, I believe the vast majority of people who say "I support George's rights and George's wrongs!" are just being silly and having fun and are perfectly capable of rationally judging what they're watching. You guys are great, please have a great time, tell your friends about the show so that more people learn about James VI and the Villiers family!!

But yeah, rarely there's… I don't go on Shitter but saw a screenshot of someone saying they hoped Somerset/Buckingham would be the main ship because Laurie Davidson is hotter and they don't want to watch an "ugly" (??) "old man fuck" and that just disheartened and disgusted me. You know, gayness doesn't exist to be hot and entertaining. Queer stories serve more purposes than fetish fuel for oglers. And this story is about real people who actually existed…

Also, I've got thoughts about people who think it's wrong and disgusting for James to have fallen in love with handsome George Villiers but also vociferously and openly thirst over Nicholas Galitzine and want to see him naked in queer roles. 😑

Anyway I'm happy to see these figures in almost any interpretation but I really hope George Villiers will be allowed to be magnificently terrible because… c'mon… it's George Villiers. The icon. The legend. The Duke of Buckingham himself. I feel like watering down his character would be cheating him of the glory he's due.

[james-vi-stan-blog]

I have a question! did James knew that Mary was the one pushing George to be in a relationship with him or did James know? I’m not sure if that makes sense but I hope you get what I’m trying to say lol

I rambled about "did James know Mary was pushing George forward" before, that may be of interest!

James knew that every candidate for his affection was being pushed forward by some faction or another - I mean, you could not even enter the presence of the king without connections and sponsorships. However, I can't say that James would have considered Mary a more important pusher than William and Philip Herbert, or known how long she had been planning her son's rise, etc.

And you know, I'm not even sure that we know that Mary was aiming for George to get in the king's bed, as opposed to generally hoping that her most talented son would be able to rise in the court and make connections to help the rest of the family. It's plausible - certainly, James's love of handsome young men was known, and people tried tempting him with attractive young replacement favorites later - but I don't think we know how detailed her plans were from the beginning.

IIRC James didn't meet Mary until after George was beginning to settle in as the new favorite. James liked her right away and brought her into the new surrogate family he was forming and would be the most invested in during his later years (George, Mary, Baby Charles, George's wife Katherine, George's daughter Mall, etc.)